How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France • Hacker News Board

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#11

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:29 AM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yet hundreds of companies are created every year.

You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. A comment full of cliché. If France is so bad, move out. You'll learn a thing or two in the process. Beginning with the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#12

Post by raverbashing » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:34 AM UTC

belzebalex wrote: post #9

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yeah, as a French I can only completely agree. The amount of paperwork is just absurd. For instance, when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company. That's just plain racket, and that kind of things is everywhere. France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations. The fun part i…

As the other commenter says, and I'll add: I think French people love complaining while continuing on their bubble

A lot of countries have more regulations, but if you complain about every one of them and take it as an obstacle, yeah, really, nothing is going to come out of it.

France is not, by a long shot, the most bureaucratic country in the world. Wow 200eur to open a company? How much does that compare to, I don't know, a yearly salary? Of course it's stupid fee, the US is full of them as well but I don't see people whining.

People in France can't complain that the taxes are high and there's no money when every time some reforms are proposed such and such union goes to protest because god help them if the train conductors don't have high fashion vests right? Or complain about "loss of work rights" like, I don't know, a "right" to a lifetime employment.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#13

Post by stunt » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #2

I suspect my first question is - does it matter now, post-COVID. Is there any investment money out there still? If I get a visa, have a plan, is there anyway to raise enough money to even keep me in baguettes?

Many startups were still founded during 2008 recession. There are new needs after every crisis, and entrepreneurs just have more time and motivation to build something. Investors also try to diversify their capital like always. They're just more careful now. Crisis definitely has a negative impact overall. But, it can't stop everyone.

https://news.crunchbase.com/news/lessons-from-2008-how-the-d...

https://mattermark.com/2007-2009-financial-crisis-surprising...

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#14

Post by nix23 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #10

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. How much are taxes if you live in SF again? Or NY? > is having all employees as associates... otherwise literally more than half of the salary is gone in taxes The income tax rates in France in 2020 are as follows: Up to €10,064: 0% €10,064–€25,659: 11% €25,659–€73,369: 30% €73,369–€157,806: 41% €157…

> €157,806+: 45%

That's the problem you see?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#15

Post by fakedang » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #8

rmason wrote: post #7

I'm intrigued on how it's just the opposite of the United States. Here if you get accepted into an incubator they pay you. In France you pay them! If France really wanted foreigners to start companies there why wouldn't they make the tech visa as close to free and frictionless as possible?

See my comment over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24233291 Some of these incubators are gaming the system to make money. I'd not be surprised if they are giving these approvals to people who should not be eligible (ie: people not interested in starting a startup).

Incidentally like the author of the linked article. He states he lifted off the idea template for his first startup from Canva. Fortunately for him, he lucked out because he found another startup co-founder for an actual idea much later on.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#16

Post by Uberphallus » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:43 AM UTC

ldng wrote: post #11

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yet hundreds of companies are created every year. You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. A comment full of cliché. If France is so bad, move out. You'll learn a thing or two in the process. Beginning with the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

Yet hundreds of companies die, too.

> You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long.

Living in France for 8 years and creating 2 companies doesn't seem to count, eh? Now I have my companies elsewhere in Europe and just pay my taxes on the revenues in France, only not to deal with the bureaucratic overhead.

> If France is so bad, move out.

The chauvinism is strong in this one. I'm in France, because I like things here. But startup culture isn't one of them. Why take criticism of a country's policy personally?

If you love your country try to fix it, don't suggest people who complain to leave.

> You'll learn a thing or two in the process.

I'm sure I would. I mean, I've done it.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#17

Post by bouzouk » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:44 AM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying.

Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...).

Most startup in France don’t have « all employees as associate », that makes no sense to me. I currently have 20+ employees with no problem, and most startup are in the same situation.

On the VC problem, you are partly right. There are plenty of VC thank you! Partech, Kima, Alven, Daphni... Only to cite the French ones, but you have access to VC everywhere in Europe. It it actually fairly simple to get small investments, but to be honest, it is still a bit difficult to get some large ones (you still have to look for it abroad).

I actually don’t see French startups moving there HQ somewhere else, so I wonder where that affirmation came from... maybe you’re just talking about the ones that are expending abroad.

Aren’t you just repeating some stereotypes you heard elsewhere? If France were as hostile as you pictured it, how would it have such a dense startup ecosystem and even (God forbids!) some very successful ones?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#18

Post by maga20yes » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:45 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #10

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. How much are taxes if you live in SF again? Or NY? > is having all employees as associates... otherwise literally more than half of the salary is gone in taxes The income tax rates in France in 2020 are as follows: Up to €10,064: 0% €10,064–€25,659: 11% €25,659–€73,369: 30% €73,369–€157,806: 41% €157…

So approximately 50% tax rate for a modest 100k salary, in a country where a sandwich costs 10 euro.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#19

Post by Uberphallus » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:45 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #10

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. How much are taxes if you live in SF again? Or NY? > is having all employees as associates... otherwise literally more than half of the salary is gone in taxes The income tax rates in France in 2020 are as follows: Up to €10,064: 0% €10,064–€25,659: 11% €25,659–€73,369: 30% €73,369–€157,806: 41% €157…

For a salary of 100k, the company pays beyond 200k. Many social charges are on the company.

My salary isn't that high, but after taxes, both on me and the company, I get about 1/3 of what the company pays for me overall.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#20

Post by raverbashing » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:49 AM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #14

raverbashing wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. How much are taxes if you live in SF again? Or NY? > is having all employees as associates... otherwise literally more than half of the salary is gone in taxes The income tax rates in France in 2020 are as follows: Up to €10,064: 0% €10,064–€25,659: 11% €25,659–€73,369: 30% €73,369–€157,806: 41% €157…

> €157,806+: 45% That's the problem you see?

UK rates for comparison

Personal Allowance Up to £12,500 0%

Basic rate £12,501 to £50,000 20%

Higher rate £50,001 to £150,000 40%

Additional rate over £150,000 45%

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates