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Open Problems in Robotics

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11–20 of 232 posts

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#11
post #4

One problem I encountered while working on robotics is that many commonly used algorithms yield approximate solutions with no error bounds. They work 99.99‰ of the time. This is fine from a computer science or math point of view, but very scary from an engineering perspective, specifically when there are humans nearby. A big part of me struggles to accept the suitability of algorithms coming from gaming engines or ma…

Afaik there is some progress being done on motion planning and control parts with regards to that, mostly using reachability analysis for continuous systems or using things like control barrier functions.

I work in the perception/localization domain and I am not aware of any large developments in that direction. I do know that there are certain ML based perception systems that got some levels of ASIL certification.

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#12
post #7
post #4

One problem I encountered while working on robotics is that many commonly used algorithms yield approximate solutions with no error bounds. They work 99.99‰ of the time. This is fine from a computer science or math point of view, but very scary from an engineering perspective, specifically when there are humans nearby. A big part of me struggles to accept the suitability of algorithms coming from gaming engines or ma…

This is the scariest part of using machine learning as an engineer on any practical application as well. Without an error bound, ML can’t be in charge of anything that could put human lives at risk. This is also why I don’t understand all the hype about FSD / L5 autonomous driving. We don’t even know yet if such error bounds even exist, so we don’t even know if machine learning is even the right tool for FSD yet. All…

What about "practical error bounds", i.e. testing the system through millions/billions of miles driven?

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#13
The objections to neural nets as the solution to all the problems on his list are the same as the old objections to neural nets as the solution to computer vision, speech recognition, translation, playing Go, etc. The objections will fall in the face of overwhelming evidence that neural nets simply work better than other approaches to these types of problems.

For a long time software was the reason robots didn't work, but that time is ending. Hardware will be the bottleneck soon if it isn't already. No general purpose robot will ever be successful in the mass market using electric motors and gearboxes at each joint. We need simpler, cheaper, lighter, more robust, more reliable, backdrivable, force-sensing actuators.

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#14
post #7
post #4

One problem I encountered while working on robotics is that many commonly used algorithms yield approximate solutions with no error bounds. They work 99.99‰ of the time. This is fine from a computer science or math point of view, but very scary from an engineering perspective, specifically when there are humans nearby. A big part of me struggles to accept the suitability of algorithms coming from gaming engines or ma…

This is the scariest part of using machine learning as an engineer on any practical application as well. Without an error bound, ML can’t be in charge of anything that could put human lives at risk. This is also why I don’t understand all the hype about FSD / L5 autonomous driving. We don’t even know yet if such error bounds even exist, so we don’t even know if machine learning is even the right tool for FSD yet. All…

> Without an error bound, ML can’t be in charge of anything that could put human lives at risk

Humans don't have "error bounds" either, and you trust them just fine.

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#15
Ugh. This is making a hash of it.

What is true: The understanding of laymen about what robots can do is very much out of touch with reality. Making real world robots is very hard. I think it's movies which made people think that any 6 year old can just plop together a C-3PO.

What is the hash then? (I omit the points where I lack experience.)

1; Motion planning

"Even things like a model of where the robot is, with respect to the surroundings" That's not motion planing. Motion planing starts from when you have a model of yourself and your surrounding. There are theoretical challenges (imagine a flytrap, or maze) but the real world challenges in my experience come from that under the inaccuracies and glitchyness of perception you are expected to make okay-ish decisions.

3; SLAM

"there’s always going to be new obstacles (a pair of shoes, a book)"

SLAM is about localisation. It gives you a 6dof pose from some fixed coordinate system. It does not deal with tripping hazards. That's obstacle detection. It does indeed deal with "mapping" but only in as much as to get you that pose estimate.

"not turn-key to where there would be a SLAM module you can buy for your robot."

Sure you can. The "Intel Realsense t265" is for example one such a module.

The inside-out tracking of the Oculus Quest is an other (albeit one you will have hard time buying for your robot.)

6; Depth estimation.

That one is odd. True, getting full fidelity depth maps out of monocular images is a research problem. But if in reality you want to estimate the distance to your beer bottle you will use stereo images, or a Kinect like depth sensor. It is obviously a hard engineering challenge to make it four 9 robust, but not an unheard of challenge. If his definition of an "open problem" is that there are people writing research papers about it then it will remain an open problem for a while. But if he just wants to depth estimate stuff, then there are already working good ways. Maybe cost prohibitive, maybe not robust enough for his liking.

9; Scene understanding

Humanity made insane leaps and bounds on this one. Again there are engineering tradeoffs. How much accuracy you get for how much watts. What kind of training data you need, etc etc. Our systems are nowhere as good as a 5 year old human child, but I think we can handle that "beer bottle obscured by ketchup bottle" challenge if we try.

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#16
Autonomous robots sound cool, but there are so many problems that could benefit from robotic automation that don’t require full autonomy. In controlled environments where we know the entire state of the (local) world including the position of our robotic swarm we can deterministically plan a motion and leave the world in an expected end state. Maybe use a bit CV to make sure our assumptions are right, if not hit the break else continue.

Construction, mining, infrastructure, agriculture, manufacturing, logistics all contain problems spaces that could use non- or semi-autonomous robotic automation. Still a difficult problem, but how can we expect full autonomy without controlled robotic environments first?

Yes we use robots in manufacturing and a few warehouses, but that’s it..?

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#17

Honestly, late yesterday evening after work I was looking at floor full of toys that my little kids were playing with in yet another lockdown day thinking I wish there was a robot that I could build or buy to tidy this up. Did some research found this research project, promising but from 2018 and looks like it didn't go anywhere. https://youtu.be/geub-Nuu-Vw So now I'm thinking what about the build option.

Build it. There is a global market of parents who will buy it.

But on the other hand, why not accept the toys on the floor? You are fighting entropy for no reason. You sleep at night, you will work tomorrow during the day, and when you look again, the toys are in an equally dispersed state. Why not let them stay in that state for days until you need to hover?

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#18
post #4

One problem I encountered while working on robotics is that many commonly used algorithms yield approximate solutions with no error bounds. They work 99.99‰ of the time. This is fine from a computer science or math point of view, but very scary from an engineering perspective, specifically when there are humans nearby. A big part of me struggles to accept the suitability of algorithms coming from gaming engines or ma…

Purely in the space of geometry and simple motion planning, there are reasonable methods with guaranteed correct solutions, provided their sensor data is correct. Of course, combining correctness (the solution is actually safe), completeness (a solution will be found if it exists), and bounded computation time (get a solution in actually useful time) is a much harder combination to achieve.

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#19
post #6

In the area of Motion Planning (my own area of research), the most that can be said is that practical solutions exist for a tiny subset of cases, workable methods exist for a larger subset, expensive methods exist for a still larger subset, and everthing else might as well be impossible. - If you've got a low-dimensional problem, say 2D or 3D, without uncertainty (or at least bounded enough to pad obstacles and ignor…

sorry for sidetracking your answer but what actually does convex mean in the context of optimization. I remember looking at a book called convex optimization.

Your statement that > Motion planning is very much non-convex,

suggests to me that you are very much talking about the same thing. I understand convexity as in a shape. Why is convex good and concave bad in terms of optimization?

I don't want you to dumb down the answer too much as I am a trained Mechanical Engineer but then my major isn't math. Hope you understand :)

Re: Open Problems in Robotics

#20
post #6

In the area of Motion Planning (my own area of research), the most that can be said is that practical solutions exist for a tiny subset of cases, workable methods exist for a larger subset, expensive methods exist for a still larger subset, and everthing else might as well be impossible. - If you've got a low-dimensional problem, say 2D or 3D, without uncertainty (or at least bounded enough to pad obstacles and ignor…

But we don't need optimality or even analytic solutions for practical robot motion. Do we?
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