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California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

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Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#11

Post by bhupy »

lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

s/US/California.

The US is decentralized (especially as it relates to electricity). Most of the rest of the Union is doing just fine.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#12

Post by cobookman »

lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period.

1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#13

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

[deleted]

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#14

Post by khuey »

Majromax wrote: post #8
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here isn't that the California power grid has deteriorated, but that there's an extraordinary heat wave. I don't think it's fair to tie this into a grand decline narrative.

A robust infrastructure should be able to handle surge loads. This isn't an extraordinary heat wave after some other natural disaster has directly damaged the power grid; it's that the grid as designed and built can't handle this load. It's hardly conclusive for a "grand decline" narrative, of course, since this is just one anecdote for an entire society.

Do we really need to pay for an electric grid that can handle a once every 20 year load?

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#15

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

cobookman wrote: post #12
lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

> You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period.

Do you have some numbers for that? The only load shedding I remember in Europe was done through turning off large consumers and they would typically do this on their side.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#17

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #7
lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

That's just your human brain succumbing to its recency bias. As someone who has been around for way too many decades, it was like this in the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's. And corruption is way down from say the early 1900's (don't even talk about the 1800's where it was odd for a politician to not be corrupt). And your "save the world from fascism" happened at the same time most of the US was segregated.

[deleted]

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#18

Post by chrisseaton »

lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

> The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals.

Americans have been saying this about their own country for decades. Many people see the worst in their own. And if anything I think the outlook was more pessimistic than now in the 80s, and even more than that in the 70s.

Realistically, for all its faults, the US is still where I'd aspire to live for best opportunity and quality of life if I couldn't live in my home country for some reason.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#19

Post by pwarner »

khuey wrote: post #14
Majromax wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A robust infrastructure should be able to handle surge loads. This isn't an extraordinary heat wave after some other natural disaster has directly damaged the power grid; it's that the grid as designed and built can't handle this load. It's hardly conclusive for a "grand decline" narrative, of course, since this is just one anecdote for an entire society.

Do we really need to pay for an electric grid that can handle a once every 20 year load?

That's the real question. Even 1 in 10 year load, do you build for it or just live with it? It's just a $ decision.

Re: California issues first rolling blackouts since 2001

#20

Post by [deleted] »

cobookman wrote: post #12
lisper wrote: post #2

The entire U.S. is feeling more and more like a third-world country. Corrupt government. Unreliable and deteriorating infrastructure. Extreme poverty (I recently learned that 30% of houses on Indian reservations don't have running water). Marginalization or even outright vilification of intellectuals. 75 years ago we saved the world from fascism. Who is going to save us from ourselves? :-(

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

[deleted]
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