The Hatpin Peril (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#11

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #9

jschwartzi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it. If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are. This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating i…

I think stabbing someone has a very high chance of making the situation far more dangerous than just asking the person to stop. Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her. Women and children first into the lifeboa…

[deleted]

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#12

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #10

epicureanideal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but it's reasonable to at least attempt it before bashing or stabbing someone, right? The same thing could be said about many circumstances. Just because a non-violent attempt to defuse the situation doesn't work in 100% of cases doesn't mean it is okay to skip attempting it, and jump straight to stabbing or bashing someone.

> it's reasonable to at least attempt it Now consider having to do that twice a day, every day or every other day, where in some X% of the cases the man involved may themselves turn violent immediately after being rejected.

I guess since it would be so inconvenient, just stabbing someone right away is ok... ?

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#13

Post by perl4ever » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #4

quickthrowman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do understand that women were not allowed to vote during the hatpin panic, right? Perhaps that fact will provide some context as to why women were stabbing men with hatpins for sexually assaulting them. They didn’t have the same rights that men did!

Yes, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable to beat someone in the face with an umbrella for saying something you don't like... Also, as a separate point, it was only in 1868 that all men were able to vote in the United States, although it seems most men could vote by the 1820s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t... Would it have been acceptable for a non-property-holding white male in…

>Would it have been acceptable for a non-property-holding white male in 1820 to beat another man with a stick

Definitely if they were congressmen.

https://newrepublic.com/article/151817/violence-broke-congre...

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#14

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #2

> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…

Responding by STABBING someone, as a measure of first defense, is ludicrous, disproportionate, and far more immoral than the harassment leading to it.

The harassment is ALSO TERRIBLE. Just not STABBINGLY so.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#15

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #8

crooked-v wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just tell him off and walk away? It's very simple to find many, many anecdotal cases where doing this does exactly zilch to actual stop harassment, and sometimes instead results in a man aggressively insulting and harassing the woman for daring to refuse his attention.

Okay, but it's reasonable to at least attempt it before bashing or stabbing someone, right? The same thing could be said about many circumstances. Just because a non-violent attempt to defuse the situation doesn't work in 100% of cases doesn't mean it is okay to skip attempting it, and jump straight to stabbing or bashing someone.

[deleted]

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#16

Post by Igelau » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #2

> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…

Considering the state of medicine in 1903, there's a good chance he lost the arm or died.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#17

Post by spanhandler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #4

quickthrowman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do understand that women were not allowed to vote during the hatpin panic, right? Perhaps that fact will provide some context as to why women were stabbing men with hatpins for sexually assaulting them. They didn’t have the same rights that men did!

Yes, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable to beat someone in the face with an umbrella for saying something you don't like... Also, as a separate point, it was only in 1868 that all men were able to vote in the United States, although it seems most men could vote by the 1820s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t... Would it have been acceptable for a non-property-holding white male in…

Hell I've seen women this century hit guys pretty hard just to say "hello" or because they disagree about where the guy wants to go eat or something else entirely trivial. Similar is all over TV, so common it passes below the level of notice most of the time. At least this wasn't just socially-acceptable casually-abusive battery and had a purpose. Go hatpin ladies.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#18

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #9

jschwartzi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it. If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are. This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating i…

I think stabbing someone has a very high chance of making the situation far more dangerous than just asking the person to stop. Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her. Women and children first into the lifeboa…

>Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her.

Is that really true?

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#19

Post by jschwartzi » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #9

jschwartzi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it. If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are. This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating i…

I think stabbing someone has a very high chance of making the situation far more dangerous than just asking the person to stop. Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her. Women and children first into the lifeboa…

I think you're taking this pretty far down the slippery slope. Someone who "mashes" up to you by taking advantage of the carriage bouncing and then slips his arm around you without saying anything is very different from someone asking you for directions. I could see the former being a prelude to assault, while the latter wouldn't be.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#20

Post by Sniffnoy » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #5

epicureanideal wrote: post #2

> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…

You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it. If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are. This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating i…

> You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it.

Disagre; it's generally backed by one's ability to raise a stink and possibly even call the police. That is to say, it relies on the force you can summon from having people (whether bystanders or professionals) recognize that you're in the right and rally to join you, not your own personal capacity for force.