Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 99 posts

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#11

Post by just-ok »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #9
sosborn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m genuinely curious, what innovations could there possibly be for sails beyond increasing surface area or either the sails or the keel?

I can't imagine there would be that many. Sails just don't provide all that much motive force, and they're far too unreliable (wind dies down, it doesn't matter how much sail you have.) Maybe the GP was thinking more along the lines of general 'green' tech -- wind turbines, solar panels, etc? It would certainly be cool to see more of those to supplement existing propulsion systems on ships, and that would help reduce…

Combining technologies would absolutely be a great way to pivot, as the article shows. Maybe it’s a dumb question, but why don’t we have sails on modern ships as a supplement?

I just lament that we basically completely abandoned such a great mechanism (sails) so haphazardly just because coal was cheap & reliable; now the environment pays the price.

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#12

Post by chrisco255 »

sosborn wrote: post #6
just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

I’m genuinely curious, what innovations could there possibly be for sails beyond increasing surface area or either the sails or the keel?

Only thing I could think of would be a hybrid boat...sail + solar powered / wind powered electric motor?

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#13

Post by hoorayimhelping »

just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

I think you're vastly underestimating how slow it is to ship things by sail. Take a look at some of the routes boats had to take to avoid the doldrums and find favorable winds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winds_in_the_Age_of_Sail. Having to sail 2/3 of the way to America just to stay in good winds added 3 weeks to a month to every trip out of Spain or Portugal.

Take a look at the clipper route https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_route. To ship goods across the world by sail in any reasonable amount of time, you have to sail way down in the southern ocean, where the winds and seas are incredibly rough and dangerous, and many many people have died horribly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Forties.

We stopped using sails, because people were tired of sailors taking one for the team.

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#15

Post by edaemon »

sosborn wrote: post #6
just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

I’m genuinely curious, what innovations could there possibly be for sails beyond increasing surface area or either the sails or the keel?

They don't work like a traditional sail but "rotor sails" are a fairly recent innovation and seem interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

I've seen articles here and there about adding them to tankers to increase fuel efficiency.

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#16

Post by tomrod »

just-ok wrote: post #11
genocidicbunny wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine there would be that many. Sails just don't provide all that much motive force, and they're far too unreliable (wind dies down, it doesn't matter how much sail you have.) Maybe the GP was thinking more along the lines of general 'green' tech -- wind turbines, solar panels, etc? It would certainly be cool to see more of those to supplement existing propulsion systems on ships, and that would help reduce…

Combining technologies would absolutely be a great way to pivot, as the article shows. Maybe it’s a dumb question, but why don’t we have sails on modern ships as a supplement? I just lament that we basically completely abandoned such a great mechanism (sails) so haphazardly just because coal was cheap & reliable; now the environment pays the price.

We use the form factor quite differently. A game and watch is about the size of a cell phone these days.

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#17

Post by [deleted] »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #13
just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

I think you're vastly underestimating how slow it is to ship things by sail. Take a look at some of the routes boats had to take to avoid the doldrums and find favorable winds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winds_in_the_Age_of_Sail . Having to sail 2/3 of the way to America just to stay in good winds added 3 weeks to a month to every trip out of Spain or Portugal. Take a look at the clipper route https://en.wikipedia…

[deleted]

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#18

Post by onion2k »

russfink wrote: post #14

Novice here - isn't there some static hull shape that would react to waves and result in motion, much like those plastic widgets that spin only in one direction?

This design is capturing energy from the vertical vector of wave's motion, so it works regardless of the direction of the wave or the boat. Capturing the horizontal part of the wave would be possible, but only if you wanted your boat to travel in the same direction and at the same speed as the wave. That's not so useful.

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#19

Post by bnegreve »

just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

> It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology.

We did, modern sail boats are much faster than they used to be and can almost sail against the wind (~30° from the wind direction). Fastest sail boats can cross the Atlantic in few days now. (speed record: 3days15h [1])

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record

Re: A new design ship in the Philippines is partly powered by wave energy

#20

Post by satori99 »

sosborn wrote: post #6
just-ok wrote: post #5

It’s honestly a shame that we didn’t keep pursuing sail technology. It’s great that we’re finally getting somewhere environmentally-friendly with ship tech nowadays as in the OP, but if we’d put the same amount of effort to innovate and advance sails like we did steam, I imagine we’d have pretty amazing (and completely green) methods of transport for all but the heaviest cargo loads (and even then, just split the loa…

I’m genuinely curious, what innovations could there possibly be for sails beyond increasing surface area or either the sails or the keel?

It is worth noting that rigging and sails for lightweight racing hulls has evolved way beyond anything that has ever been used commercially -- And would look quite weird (though still recognizable) to a 19th C sailor [0].

Also, the material science involved in creating laminated sailcloth is very close to state-of-the-art.

Of course, racing yachts go fast because they weigh very little.

Also, Kitesails [1] have been proposed many times over the last few decades, but I've not heard of anyone using one commercially.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsail

[1] https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/11/airbus-seawing-kite-sai...

Post reply on HN