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Large explosion in Beirut

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Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#11
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One article I read said it was near a place where fireworks were stored. But who knows for sure yet.

This video shows fireworks, then a second explosion https://twitter.com/SVNewsAlerts/status/1290674216623366144

Oh, wow. I hope the videographer didn't sustain major injury. What a spectacular human disaster.

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#12
Looks like this [0] is the place, judging by the angle from video [1] (take the building with the red cupola south of there and the building in the harbor as reference).

[0] https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=e851aed9-b5df-495a-89e8-5c53d...

[1] https://twitter.com/JeonggukJeon__/status/129068971722728243...

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#13

Unconfirmed reports that a fireworks depot fire caused a secondary benzene explosion. src: https://twitter.com/mattparlmer/status/1290679715892690945

I’ve also seen reports of grain silos in the area being destroyed; grain is an astonishingly powerful explosive.

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#14
Looks like a fuel air explosion to me; perhaps the fireworks factory popped a large LNG tank, which flowed out until it hit an ignitable diffusion; which then blew the rest of the tank farm open and caused the next front.

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#15

Looks like this [0] is the place, judging by the angle from video [1] (take the building with the red cupola south of there and the building in the harbor as reference). [0] https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=e851aed9-b5df-495a-89e8-5c53d... [1] https://twitter.com/JeonggukJeon__/status/129068971722728243...

Yeah, Nick Waters from Bellingcat thinks the same:

https://twitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1290681231693275136

See also this tweet:

https://twitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1290688278094647298

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#17

Unconfirmed reports that a fireworks depot fire caused a secondary benzene explosion. src: https://twitter.com/mattparlmer/status/1290679715892690945

That sounds plausible - it won’t be fireworks alone, black powder won’t make that kind of bang. Ammonium nitrate would fit the bill, too, which is the sort of thing you often have in warehouses or bulk carriers in quantities that would make an explosion of that order. Honestly, it’s somewhat amazing that this kind of thing doesn’t happen far more often than the ~1 incident per year, globally.

A friend of mine worked in EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) and related fields. I got to talk with him once about all this. One of the primary thing that reduces the rate of accidents is people following the rules. Basically, there are rules that say, based on mass, how far apart different things need to be from each other. It also varies by the kind of explosive (as different explosives have different triggers like heat or concussion). [0] is like the tables he showed me (his were more complex and dealt with specifically named explosives, not the broader categories this one describes).

[0] https://www.atf.gov/explosives/table-distances

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#18

Unconfirmed reports that a fireworks depot fire caused a secondary benzene explosion. src: https://twitter.com/mattparlmer/status/1290679715892690945

I’ve also seen reports of grain silos in the area being destroyed; grain is an astonishingly powerful explosive.

Grain is a pretty poor explosive because the upper and lower explosive limits are so close (yes I know that's not traditionally a metric we use for solids), it needs an oxidier and the volume of byproduct for volume of input is relatively low.

But large amounts of grain and oxygen are often found together in confined spaces so that makes it more explosive in practice than most things that people who work in offices and don't deal in bulk goods come into contact with.

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also seen reports of grain silos in the area being destroyed; grain is an astonishingly powerful explosive.

Grain is a pretty poor explosive because the upper and lower explosive limits are so close (yes I know that's not traditionally a metric we use for solids), it needs an oxidier and the volume of byproduct for volume of input is relatively low. But large amounts of grain and oxygen are often found together in confined spaces so that makes it more explosive in practice than most things that people who work in offices a…

Can you elaborate what "upper and lower explosive limits" are, please.

Also I don't understnd how it could be explosive at all, sudden oxidation of large (that is, low surface area to volume), non-dry particles seems unlikely. Flour etc. may be another matter, but a blast like this... flour?

Re: Large explosion in Beirut

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grain is a pretty poor explosive because the upper and lower explosive limits are so close (yes I know that's not traditionally a metric we use for solids), it needs an oxidier and the volume of byproduct for volume of input is relatively low. But large amounts of grain and oxygen are often found together in confined spaces so that makes it more explosive in practice than most things that people who work in offices a…

Can you elaborate what "upper and lower explosive limits" are, please. Also I don't understnd how it could be explosive at all, sudden oxidation of large (that is, low surface area to volume), non-dry particles seems unlikely. Flour etc. may be another matter, but a blast like this... flour?

>upper and lower explosive limits

concentration of the fuel in otherwise normal atmospheric air required to go whoosh (or bang, which is basically just a really fast woosh or one that's constrained by something).

Too much fuel, too rich, no woosh.

Too little fuel, too lean, no woosh.

Lower and upper explosive limits are generally used to refer to gas mixtures though you can use them for solids but the units will be different. Solids we think of as explosive when not fishing around for virtue points on the internet generally contain their own oxygen supply so lower and upper explosive limit doesn't apply.

>sudden oxidation of large (that is, low surface area to volume), non-dry particles seems unlikely. Flour etc. may be another matter, but a blast like this... flour?

Yeah, no way that secondary explosion is flour or grain. I'd put my money on some sort of industrial chemical that contains its own oxidizer. Explosions that use atmospheric oxygen look different and rarely manage to be able to build up that kind of shock-wave if not constrained by something (like a building). There should be videos of natural gas explosions on YouTube that illustrate the difference.

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