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It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

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Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#11

Post by Mz »

pumpmylemma wrote: post #6

I wonder if their are any BioHackers out there that actually try to do this type of work. (Anyone?) I'm not one of them, but I've always had the impression they play more with bacteria than complex organisms. I think cost and accessibility are probably prohibitive to the garage biohacker, but would a very motivated biohacker have the advantage of not answering to an IRB?

I guess you could call me a "biohacker". I don't work on mice, I work on myself. I was diagnosed just under 10 years ago with "atypical cystic fibrosis" and, after a lifetime of being treated like a hypochondriac, promptly informed that "people like you don't get well". Having no other real choice, since doctors clearly had no plans to really help me get well, I began working on issues myself (and gradually began seeing results to a degree I never expected). My doctor expressed zero interest in how I was miraculously getting better. I get to "break" rules or make up rules as I see fit and that is, in fact, part of why I have made such astonishing progress.

FWIW:

Spent most of my life too sick to hold down a job and hid behind the label "homemaker and full time mom".

Spent about 3.5 months bedridden.

Diagnosed in May 2001 with "atypical cystic fibrosis".

Summer 2002: While attending GIS school in the smoggy LA area, got on boatloads of medication that doctors would not give me when I was bedridden and had no diagnosis. This helped save my life but left me a mess.

Spent the next several years getting off the drugs.

Antibiotic-free for something over 7 years (iirc).

Medication free since sometime in summer/fall of 2009.

Generally treated like a nutcase by the CF community which can't admit their real problem with me is they firmly believe the mantra "people like you don't get well" while simultaneously raising tens of thousands of dollars for the CF foundation and chanting "let CF stand for 'cure found'".

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#12

Post by Udo »

chc wrote: post #7
Udo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is not relevant to most hackers, except if they happen to be bio researchers. Worse yet, while being mostly irrelevant, it's also a barely disguised flamebait piece designed to incite a fruitless ethics debate. This should be posted somewhere else. And I don't care how many downvotes I get either; the guys who where complaining about the increasing lack of focus on HN earlier today were right.

They were also complaining about lack of civility, which is the reason your comment (which has a very snide tone) is getting downvoted.

I know why I'm being downvoted, it's always a risk when posting a comment with a certain tone. Though I don't normally post in this style, I just didn't care when I wrote it. I realize this thread may have prompted an inordinate amount of frustration in me which should probably have been directed towards worthier targets.

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#13

Post by jaysonelliot »

Perhaps if the bio community had been better about treating animals humanely when they weren't being watched, you wouldn't be subjected to so many rules now.

There are many inhumane things done to animals outside of the lab. Does that mean that we should work to reduce the cruelty of things like glue traps, or that we should increase the cruelty of animal research?

I'm sorry that you have to fill out a lot of paperwork if you want to inflict deliberate pain and suffering on a living creature.

The ethical questions raised by animal experimentation are a well-trodden debate, and I suspect that you have spent enough time listening to, perhaps even engaging in them, not to rehash them here.

We need medical advancements for humans, and sometimes that requires animal testing. That may be, but we also need to advance in our ethics and morals while we advance in our technology.

"You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members."

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#14

Post by pacohn »

Udo wrote: post #10
pacohn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the answer. Personally, I don't see it so much as flamebait as an interesting issue. Even so, as long as people remain civil, I think discussions of conflicting viewpoints can be very valuable. I had the impression that HN was for broad content, as long as it was intellectually stimulating. However, based on this recent post about the decline of HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 I get the fee…

I'm obviously mistaken, otherwise the thread wouldn't have received so many positive votes. In fact, I apologize, it's me who apparently lost the plot. I bow to the majority opinion. > I get the feeling that there are conflicting communities here. Maybe, though that matter seems to be resolving itself on its own currently. > Personally, I don't see it so much as flamebait as an interesting issue Science research shou…

>> I get the feeling that there are conflicting communities here. >Maybe, though that matter seems to be resolving itself on its own currently.

Well I think HN grew due to the hacker community. After reading some in the post I linked. I am thinking that it might not be right that it be hijacked. I was a big Redditor and felt driven away somewhat recently. I guess this is all tangential, but no offense taken. Best.

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#15

Post by YuriNiyazov »

pacohn wrote: post #9
Udo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is not relevant to most hackers, except if they happen to be bio researchers. Worse yet, while being mostly irrelevant, it's also a barely disguised flamebait piece designed to incite a fruitless ethics debate. This should be posted somewhere else. And I don't care how many downvotes I get either; the guys who where complaining about the increasing lack of focus on HN earlier today were right.

Thanks for the answer. Personally, I don't see it so much as flamebait as an interesting issue. Even so, as long as people remain civil, I think discussions of conflicting viewpoints can be very valuable. I had the impression that HN was for broad content, as long as it was intellectually stimulating. However, based on this recent post about the decline of HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 I get the fee…

Reading this article made me think "wow, not everything is lost, this is exactly the kind of stuff that HN used to have on it before the decline", so I definitely disagree with Udo

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#16

Post by Mz »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #13

Perhaps if the bio community had been better about treating animals humanely when they weren't being watched, you wouldn't be subjected to so many rules now. There are many inhumane things done to animals outside of the lab. Does that mean that we should work to reduce the cruelty of things like glue traps, or that we should increase the cruelty of animal research? I'm sorry that you have to fill out a lot of paperwo…

"You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members."

In the US, child protection laws were modeled on previously created animal rights laws.

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#17

Post by Udo »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #15
pacohn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the answer. Personally, I don't see it so much as flamebait as an interesting issue. Even so, as long as people remain civil, I think discussions of conflicting viewpoints can be very valuable. I had the impression that HN was for broad content, as long as it was intellectually stimulating. However, based on this recent post about the decline of HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 I get the fee…

Reading this article made me think "wow, not everything is lost, this is exactly the kind of stuff that HN used to have on it before the decline", so I definitely disagree with Udo

I feel bad hijacking the discussion like this. But I'd really like to know how a blog post on how the government should abolish ethics oversight in research is hacker news? Obviously, you have been here way longer, so what is that I'm not getting?

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#18

Post by spoondan »

Udo wrote: post #5
pacohn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Am I missing something?

I believe this is not relevant to most hackers, except if they happen to be bio researchers. Worse yet, while being mostly irrelevant, it's also a barely disguised flamebait piece designed to incite a fruitless ethics debate. This should be posted somewhere else. And I don't care how many downvotes I get either; the guys who where complaining about the increasing lack of focus on HN earlier today were right.

The standard for an article's appropriateness is whether it's something "that good hackers would find interesting", not whether it's "relevant to most hackers."

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#19

Post by pumpmylemma »

Mz wrote: post #11
pumpmylemma wrote: post #6

I wonder if their are any BioHackers out there that actually try to do this type of work. (Anyone?) I'm not one of them, but I've always had the impression they play more with bacteria than complex organisms. I think cost and accessibility are probably prohibitive to the garage biohacker, but would a very motivated biohacker have the advantage of not answering to an IRB?

I guess you could call me a "biohacker". I don't work on mice, I work on myself. I was diagnosed just under 10 years ago with "atypical cystic fibrosis" and, after a lifetime of being treated like a hypochondriac, promptly informed that "people like you don't get well". Having no other real choice, since doctors clearly had no plans to really help me get well, I began working on issues myself (and gradually began see…

What you described is becoming much more common. I still have concerns, but I'm excited by the promise of websites like http://patientslikeme.com

(Disclaimer: I'm actually starting an HN-like website for rare disease people in a week or two; I had (or have) a rare type of cancer called Chordoma.)

Re: It should be easier for me to give mice brain tumors.

#20

Post by Mz »

pumpmylemma wrote: post #19
Mz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could call me a "biohacker". I don't work on mice, I work on myself. I was diagnosed just under 10 years ago with "atypical cystic fibrosis" and, after a lifetime of being treated like a hypochondriac, promptly informed that "people like you don't get well". Having no other real choice, since doctors clearly had no plans to really help me get well, I began working on issues myself (and gradually began see…

What you described is becoming much more common. I still have concerns, but I'm excited by the promise of websites like http://patientslikeme.com (Disclaimer: I'm actually starting an HN-like website for rare disease people in a week or two; I had (or have) a rare type of cancer called Chordoma.)

I'm actually starting an HN-like website for rare disease people in a week or two

My contact info is in my profile. I would love to know when this is up.

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