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Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

theintercept.com

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Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#11

Post by aylee »

jeffbee wrote: post #10
jjulius wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect end users with little-to-no technical know-how to have the same common knowledge that you do.

Well, why not? How can we improve general technological literacy? I don't want people to memorize the protocols, but I do want them to have the foundation of knowledge that would allow them to conclude that if the phone company can connect calls to your mobile handset, then they can also figure out roughly where it is. I'd also like for people to have the basic knowledge required to understand that GPS does not track…

Abstracting away all of the details underlying the tech is a double edged sword. On one side, you get massively higher adoption due to a lower barrier to entry. On the other, you now have a massive population of folks who don’t understand the the “fundamentals”.

I’m not sure we “need” to improve the general understanding. I mean how many ppl know how to change their own car tires or oil? If anything you just keep creating niches for ppl to make livings in.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#12

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

jeffbee wrote: post #10
jjulius wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect end users with little-to-no technical know-how to have the same common knowledge that you do.

Well, why not? How can we improve general technological literacy? I don't want people to memorize the protocols, but I do want them to have the foundation of knowledge that would allow them to conclude that if the phone company can connect calls to your mobile handset, then they can also figure out roughly where it is. I'd also like for people to have the basic knowledge required to understand that GPS does not track…

The median IQ is 100, meaning half of all people have IQs below 100. Many of them did not grow up in an environment that pushes lifelong learning. Lots of people do what they've been trained to do and nothing more, which is good! Our society needs people like that. But expecting people like that to think for themselves is a sure way to become needlessly frustrated.

edit: switched average to median.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#13

Post by inetknght »

jeffbee wrote: post #10
jjulius wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect end users with little-to-no technical know-how to have the same common knowledge that you do.

Well, why not? How can we improve general technological literacy? I don't want people to memorize the protocols, but I do want them to have the foundation of knowledge that would allow them to conclude that if the phone company can connect calls to your mobile handset, then they can also figure out roughly where it is. I'd also like for people to have the basic knowledge required to understand that GPS does not track…

> How can we improve general technological literacy?

Fund schools.

Provide mandatory technical and privacy education.

> I'd also like for people to have the basic knowledge required to

Fund schools.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#15

Post by shakna »

seniorsassycat wrote: post #14

> stingrays can force phones to downgrade to 2G, a less secure protocol, and tell the phone to use either no encryption or use a weak encryption that can be cracked. Can android, iOS, or an open phone os prevent 2g communication?

It happens within the OS for the baseband processor, not within the OS of the actual phone. Unsurprisingly, the details of how the baseband processor work are a highly guarded secret, and trying to reverse engineer anything around it will end up with a heft lawsuit thrown at you.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#16

Post by pas »

seniorsassycat wrote: post #14

> stingrays can force phones to downgrade to 2G, a less secure protocol, and tell the phone to use either no encryption or use a weak encryption that can be cracked. Can android, iOS, or an open phone os prevent 2g communication?

This is probably something that the baseband radio processor decides. Depending on the firmware/software on the chip the host OS might be able to instruct it to don't ever downgrade to 2G.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#18

Post by rrose »

jeffbee wrote: post #2

TL;DR it's a radio in your pocket that constantly announces its identity. I'm quite interested in the fact that people don't realize this. Is it a generational split between people who can remember when we did not all have radios in our pockets and those who can't, or ??? The fact that an always-on radio you carry everywhere can be used to track you seems like the #1 most obvious thing about the technology.

I feel like you're ignoring a key point here, which is that these stingray devices can MitM your phone by forcing it to send essentially unencrypted messages. That's both more technically complicated and more serious than passive tracking.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#19

Post by jdefr89 »

Hey. Someone who briefly worked on the Stingray team here.

I left the company that develops the stingray (who’s name is mentioned in the article but I shall not say it) because I didn’t feel comfortable with the ethics of how it could potentially be easily abused without legal permission and/or repercussion. I fear these technologies will become more commonly used against Americans by low level law enforcement without good reason and without responsible usage.

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