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Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

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Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#11

Post by okintheory »

nostromo wrote: post #10
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fair criticism from what I've seen too, though for passers by I'd just say that it shouldn't necessarily entirely discredit the field. What particularly interests me, is the "nudge" applications which have been adopted by govts. over the past number of years. Whilst most of their plans miss, the ones that stick are incredible, such as the setting of defaults to drastically increase organ donors and improve pe…

I’m not sure I want the government opting me in to programs any more than I want Google opting me in to things that may not be in my best interest. If dark patterns start working their way into government, god help us all.

Just FYI, govt. dark patterns in the US have been around for a very long time. For example, you could read about the "literacy" tests for voting in Southern states. Robert Caro has a nice description in Master of the Senate, vol. 2 of his LBJ biography.

EDIT: (From Caro) Questions on these tests posed to Black people in Alabama have included: "Give the names of all sixty-seven county judges in the state", "State the date when Oklahoma was admitted to the Union", and "How many bubbles there are in a bar of soap".

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#13

Post by reallydontask »

nostromo wrote: post #10
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fair criticism from what I've seen too, though for passers by I'd just say that it shouldn't necessarily entirely discredit the field. What particularly interests me, is the "nudge" applications which have been adopted by govts. over the past number of years. Whilst most of their plans miss, the ones that stick are incredible, such as the setting of defaults to drastically increase organ donors and improve pe…

I’m not sure I want the government opting me in to programs any more than I want Google opting me in to things that may not be in my best interest. If dark patterns start working their way into government, god help us all.

There are positives to the default being opt in, e.g. organ donor.

There could be negatives of course, there is no substitute for an informed citizenry and indepedent media to challenge such instances.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#15

Post by xondono »

I've been very interested in the behavioural economics field in general, but for some reason I always find that Ariely tends to jump too fast to conclusions.

Most of his experiments I read about have other explanations that fit the data just as well. For instance, the "The Economist" subscription has another explanation to simple comparison, choice deferral.

People don't really know if they'll want the online or print version, so are happy to pay extra for not having to make that choice now. If you only give them the two choices, you force them to choose. I'm not saying he is wrong, just that I miss him considering other alternatives (that to me sound way more plausible, but are less publication-sexy).

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#16

Post by sprafa »

2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #2

I read Ariely's "Predictably Irrational" years and years ago, and was fascinated by it. I'd been an economics graduate, and was surprised that we were only introduced to "Behavioural Economics" as a field in the final semester of the course. To be sure, if you want to read far more academic material, you should look at Kahneman, Sunstein or Thaler's books - but Ariely's writing style is in my opinion more fun and app…

Charlie Munger said "if economics isn't behavioral, what the hell is it?"

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#17

Post by sokoloff »

nostromo wrote: post #10
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fair criticism from what I've seen too, though for passers by I'd just say that it shouldn't necessarily entirely discredit the field. What particularly interests me, is the "nudge" applications which have been adopted by govts. over the past number of years. Whilst most of their plans miss, the ones that stick are incredible, such as the setting of defaults to drastically increase organ donors and improve pe…

I’m not sure I want the government opting me in to programs any more than I want Google opting me in to things that may not be in my best interest. If dark patterns start working their way into government, god help us all.

In setting defaults, you’re always making a choice.

“By default, all drivers will not be marked as organ donors.” vs “By default, all drivers will be marked as organ donors.”

“By default, all employees at companies with 401(k)s will save X% of their eligible salary in 401(k)s.”

You’re making a choice for them in any event.

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#18

Post by sokoloff »

mdoms wrote: post #12
coderintherye wrote: post #7

His follow-on book: "The Upside of Irrationality" is also a great read.

It's almost the exact same book. I felt ripped off having bought both.

You sound like an ideal customer for his next book: The Downside of Rationality./s

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#19

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #10
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fair criticism from what I've seen too, though for passers by I'd just say that it shouldn't necessarily entirely discredit the field. What particularly interests me, is the "nudge" applications which have been adopted by govts. over the past number of years. Whilst most of their plans miss, the ones that stick are incredible, such as the setting of defaults to drastically increase organ donors and improve pe…

I’m not sure I want the government opting me in to programs any more than I want Google opting me in to things that may not be in my best interest. If dark patterns start working their way into government, god help us all.

[deleted]

Re: Dan Ariely and Irrational Comparison

#20

Post by kashyapc »

noelwelsh wrote: post #4

I think it is worth noting that some of the more surprising results in the behavioural economics literature have failed to replicate. A quick search will find many articles discussing this. I believe there is definitely a strong core in behavioural economics, but the especially "pop science" experiments (e.g. people walk more slowly when primed to think about old age, which IIRC is in "Thinking Fast and Slow") should…

Yes, but more specifically on Thinking, Fast and Slow, as noted elsewhere[1][2]:

It is only the priming-related chapter (called 'The Associative Machine' in the book) that put "too much faith in under-powered studies", as Kahneman put it[3]. Not the entire book!

The book is a synthesis of forty years of Kahneman's research and his collaboration with his late colleague, Tversky. A wide range of topics are covered; and it still absolutely merits reading. Patiently dive into the book and make up your mind.

(But yes, a v2 of this book definitely is worth it, given the "authority" of the Nobel Memorial Prize.)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22054603

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21757524

[3] https://retractionwatch.com/2017/02/20/placed-much-faith-und...

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