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Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 54 posts

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#11
post #4

This piece is very nicely written, but they never describe what their definition of 'successful teaching' is. "Reality pedagogy" might achieve some emotional or social objectives (though the piece relies entirely on anecdotes), but do they help the student's long-term life outcomes? As an aside, despite the article's assertions, there is very little evidence that experience improves teaching ability, despite many stu…

With regards to long-term life outcomes, that's an interesting question. It'd be cool to see some studies.

I don't disagree with your implication that the teaching process the author describe might short-change learning the core skills/knowledge being taught in a course. But I would think that depends on the application of the technique and doesn't stem from the nature of the technique itself.

Also lets' not forget that anecdotal knowledge is a legitimate source of knowledge, it is just a different kind than scientifically produced knowledge. They both have their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations, and each should be critically assessed using different criteria (quality of the scientific paper, reputation of the scientists/journal behind it, and for anecdotal knowledge, reputation of the writer, logic of their argument, how it corresponds to our lived experience, etc).

Also I'd like to rephrase what you wrote to read "emotional objective for the student", and "social objective for the student". As the author is arguing these practices help the student's emotional and social development.

I think it does define what the author considers successful teaching.

A definition by providing a counterexample of unsuccessful teaching:

"I taught through violence against Muslim students and used the permission I tacitly received from the school to justify my inaction. I ignored the chaos of the world beyond the classroom because I believed that it was my job to just keep on teaching. Looking back now, I realize I was not actually teaching at all."

What the author believes the goals (outcomes) of teaching should and should not be:

"In 2001, I thought that good teaching meant delivering content knowledge to students who were behaving “appropriately.” In 2020, I know that is not enough. I’ve learned to see my classroom as a platform for empowering students and transforming society, and to use my pedagogy as a form of protest against norms that silence students. Far from sacrificing content knowledge, engaged students, whose voices are heard, are better able to learn it."

A positive definition, which describes the behavior of a successful teacher, and that the desired outcome for the students is creating a certain kind of learning process for them to participate in:

"Reality pedagogy interrupts the notion that teaching is about managing students and their behavior. Instead, I’ve learned to see them as co-teachers, and I create space for dialogue—in small groups outside of class—about how they experience the classroom and the world beyond it. It’s a space for connection, but also for any critiques they have of my teaching. These conversations are generative for everyone involved. Teachers need feedback from their students, who can see what teachers have been trained to ignore in their blind pursuit of a calm, quiet classroom. And students need a sense of agency, which they are often denied.

Co-teaching requires that teachers be humble enough to become students of their students—especially the students who have been most harmed, and will benefit most from a teacher listening to their experiences. In my first years of teaching, I never asked to hear my students’ thoughts about having to sit and learn while the world around them was going crazy. I didn’t make space for my Muslim students to heal from being targeted. But if I had started that dialogue, I would have learned a lot from them about how I could have been a better teacher.

When students have this kind of agency, a classroom can start to function like a family—or even a small society. I give all of my students a classroom responsibility that counts toward their grades and involves taking care of the physical classroom and each other. And I institute democratic decision making for all actions taken in the classroom: Students help to decide what assignments we work on, how long we spend on activities, and what to discuss. The classroom can serve as an example of what the world should look like—all students with equal power, regardless of their culture or background—rather than a replication of what it is.

Reality pedagogy involves connecting academic content to events happening in the world that affect students. The curriculum can weave in specific references to the neighborhoods where young people are from, inequities that they and their families are hurt by, and protests in the community. But that doesn’t mean these lessons are always serious. Students can compete to show their knowledge through art, games, and music. I have created projects like the Science Genius competition, where young people write raps about science content and events happening in their lives and compete to be the best scientist, rapper, and storyteller. The classroom—especially for Black youth—should not feel like a place where they are policed or silenced. Black joy can be a part of daily learning."

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#12

I agree that "Teaching Isn't About Managing Behavior", in the same way that programming isn't about avoiding syntax errors and driving a car isn't about staying between the marked lines on the road. I was a teacher for fifteen years. The writer of this article started about the same time I got into the profession, so has nearly 20 years of experience. The first thing you need to do with any class is manage behavior.…

Exactly. And winning a war isn't about feeding your soldiers, but you can't win the war without good mess hall sergeants.

One loud, misbehaving student can ruin the class for the other n-1. Idealists want to dream that there are no bad kids and it's all the fault of the patriarchy, white supremacy or worse. They may be correct, but work won't commence until everyone is sitting still.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#13

> The best teachers don’t just keep teaching. Instead, they use their pedagogy as protest: I hope not. I think teachers should teach to the status quo and let students when they are older or their parents make the decision about what they are going to protest, and what changes they are going to push for. In general, I think students, especially young students, should be shrieked from the ugliness of life as much as p…

Hear hear.

This pattern of people leveraging their professional position as a platform for activism is questionable, but debatable, in general. But being entrusted to teach children requires exactly that, trust. If school systems lose the trust of parents, and eventually their larger communities, they're done.

If schools can be reasonably viewed as attempting to indoctrinate children, there will be a massive backlash. People will put up with a lot, but their children are generally off limits.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#15
post #11
post #4

This piece is very nicely written, but they never describe what their definition of 'successful teaching' is. "Reality pedagogy" might achieve some emotional or social objectives (though the piece relies entirely on anecdotes), but do they help the student's long-term life outcomes? As an aside, despite the article's assertions, there is very little evidence that experience improves teaching ability, despite many stu…

With regards to long-term life outcomes, that's an interesting question. It'd be cool to see some studies. I don't disagree with your implication that the teaching process the author describe might short-change learning the core skills/knowledge being taught in a course. But I would think that depends on the application of the technique and doesn't stem from the nature of the technique itself. Also lets' not forget t…

LOL sorry for the length on this comment : )

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#16

If math class is for teaching social science, then perhaps social studies class could be for teaching trigonometry.

On a related note, for better or worse, social studies seem to be the main driver bringing people to study statistics.

Indeed, that was what popularized IBM's SPSS tool, originally standing for Statistical Package for the Social Sciences.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#17
post #13

> The best teachers don’t just keep teaching. Instead, they use their pedagogy as protest: I hope not. I think teachers should teach to the status quo and let students when they are older or their parents make the decision about what they are going to protest, and what changes they are going to push for. In general, I think students, especially young students, should be shrieked from the ugliness of life as much as p…

Hear hear. This pattern of people leveraging their professional position as a platform for activism is questionable, but debatable, in general. But being entrusted to teach children requires exactly that, trust. If school systems lose the trust of parents, and eventually their larger communities, they're done. If schools can be reasonably viewed as attempting to indoctrinate children, there will be a massive backlash…

Interesting, but isn't it the reverse? I don't think education can be really free from politics. Thus, if teachers are not allowed to take up "activism" on an individual basis, and are forced to "toe the party line", then that's exactly indoctrination of students, no?

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear. This pattern of people leveraging their professional position as a platform for activism is questionable, but debatable, in general. But being entrusted to teach children requires exactly that, trust. If school systems lose the trust of parents, and eventually their larger communities, they're done. If schools can be reasonably viewed as attempting to indoctrinate children, there will be a massive backlash…

Interesting, but isn't it the reverse? I don't think education can be really free from politics. Thus, if teachers are not allowed to take up "activism" on an individual basis, and are forced to "toe the party line", then that's exactly indoctrination of students, no?

This is a rephrasing of the "everything is political" argument. No, teaching math is not.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#19

I agree that "Teaching Isn't About Managing Behavior", in the same way that programming isn't about avoiding syntax errors and driving a car isn't about staying between the marked lines on the road. I was a teacher for fifteen years. The writer of this article started about the same time I got into the profession, so has nearly 20 years of experience. The first thing you need to do with any class is manage behavior.…

Exactly. And winning a war isn't about feeding your soldiers, but you can't win the war without good mess hall sergeants. One loud, misbehaving student can ruin the class for the other n-1. Idealists want to dream that there are no bad kids and it's all the fault of the patriarchy, white supremacy or worse. They may be correct, but work won't commence until everyone is sitting still.

The problem with applying your priorities (for the idealists) is that the misbehaving kids tend to come from the 'victimized' groups. This means that by enforcing clasroom discipline, they (often) feel that they are reinforcing the patriarchy, white supremacy, or other evil side.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear. This pattern of people leveraging their professional position as a platform for activism is questionable, but debatable, in general. But being entrusted to teach children requires exactly that, trust. If school systems lose the trust of parents, and eventually their larger communities, they're done. If schools can be reasonably viewed as attempting to indoctrinate children, there will be a massive backlash…

Interesting, but isn't it the reverse? I don't think education can be really free from politics. Thus, if teachers are not allowed to take up "activism" on an individual basis, and are forced to "toe the party line", then that's exactly indoctrination of students, no?

Or perhaps we need to open up dialog and admit the reality that teachers can have an unfair political/ideological impact on impressionable children and come to a good solution that mitigates that. Right now it seems to be a bit of a "free-for-all" for teachers to within the bounds of the curriculum, inject and pepper their lessons with politically leaning views. Taking that away doesn't mean we have to "impose" the status quo onto kids.

Maybe it just means that we need to ensure politically proportionate representation when it comes to teachers, and have the conversations flow naturally with a balance. Maybe it means that we have to specifically put down rules for teachers to no delve into any political/ideological topics/opinions and to only teach the subject matter. That one would be a good start, and it's not immediately obvious that it would be indoctrination of children.

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