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Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

arstechnica.com

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Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#11

Post by catalogia »

2bitencryption wrote: post #7

can someone explain how ARM as a business works? My understanding is, they design the specification of the ARM assembly language, and the design of the hardware (not individual chip fab but like... abstractly, somehow?) But if they specify the design of the hardware, why would one chipmaker have faster/better CPUs if they are using the same spec as another chipmaker with slower/worse CPUs? What's the business model?…

From what I understand ARM designs and licenses some chips but also licenses the right to design chips implementing the same ISA. So not all ARM processors are designed by ARM.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#12

Post by ksec »

2bitencryption wrote: post #7

can someone explain how ARM as a business works? My understanding is, they design the specification of the ARM assembly language, and the design of the hardware (not individual chip fab but like... abstractly, somehow?) But if they specify the design of the hardware, why would one chipmaker have faster/better CPUs if they are using the same spec as another chipmaker with slower/worse CPUs? What's the business model?…

> Do they get paid per ARM chip sold, or yearly for the rights to sell ARM chips, etc?

Both. Basically at the top end You have licensing that big companies like Apple pay a large one-off sum ( comparatively large from ARM's perspective , but tiny in Apple's view ) for the use of ARMv8. ( i.e You will need to pay again for ARMv9 or ARMv7 ), and do custom design with the Instruction Set as along as it remain compatible with ARMv8. At the bottom end you are simply buying a blueprint from ARM, add some other IP you want and pay per ARM chip.

Anandtech has an article [1] about it and most of it are still relevant.

Since we are taking about business It is also worth mentioning the revenue of ARM before Softbank acquisition was less than the Net profits of Intel.

[1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/7112/the-arm-diaries-part-1-h...

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#14

Post by sitkack »

AWildC182 wrote: post #8

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM's licencing model in particular is steering people away from their offerings in new designs and I think they're pretty much at peak value right now with Apple's adoption of their architecture. I know there aren't tons of news articles about new high performance…

I am a huge RISC-V fan, like Cathy Bates level, but there is so much that ARM can do over the next 5,10,15 years but it looks like they are incapable of the required transformations. Everything that is good about RISC-V is already at ARM's disposal.

Currently it looks like SiFive was borne out of a solution for the organizational issues that plague innovator's dilemma companies. I am envious of SiFive's position right now. I hope they don't get swallowed by a dinosaur.

The only reason NVidia wants ARM is because they can't have an x86 license.

Apple doesn't care because they probably have an escape/hedge clause on their ARM license and they will soon be shipping an IR. They have ISA hopped so many times it is old hat to them.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#15

Post by gaze »

AWildC182 wrote: post #8

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM's licencing model in particular is steering people away from their offerings in new designs and I think they're pretty much at peak value right now with Apple's adoption of their architecture. I know there aren't tons of news articles about new high performance…

I'm curious if ARM sees RISC-V as serious competition. I'm under the impression that the instruction set makes efficient and performant implementations rather difficult.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#16

Post by wronglebowski »

Is regulation really that big of an issue?

I realize all the tech companies in the running and ARM are global brands. Recently T-Mobile and Sprint were allowed to merge in the US. Is it really that certain that Apple or another giant purchasing ARM wouldn’t be allowed?

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#17

Post by sitkack »

starfallg wrote: post #2

The antitrust implications of an ARM sale to any one of the tech giant is massive and may drag on for a while. It would be probably be quicker if Softbank floats ARM through an IPO.

There has been no meaningful antitrust action in over a decade. I wouldn't bank on it.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#18

Post by nightfly »

chvid wrote: post #13

How relevant is ARM in the long run if Apple is pursuing its own design / CPU architecture ("Apple Silicon") and the Chinese lead by Huawei are forced by US sanctions also to create their own design / architecture?

ARM will continue to be relevant for embedded stuff for a long time.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#19

Post by ryanmarsh »

chvid wrote: post #13

How relevant is ARM in the long run if Apple is pursuing its own design / CPU architecture ("Apple Silicon") and the Chinese lead by Huawei are forced by US sanctions also to create their own design / architecture?

ARM is the IP house for the ARM architecture. Control of ARM means control over all the IP (lots of patents) for ARM based processors used across many industries in many devices.

You can imagine what might happen if an anti-competitive player controlled the major competing architecture to x86.

"He who controls the spice controls the universe." etc, etc...

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#20

Post by jagger27 »

AWildC182 wrote: post #8

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM's licencing model in particular is steering people away from their offerings in new designs and I think they're pretty much at peak value right now with Apple's adoption of their architecture. I know there aren't tons of news articles about new high performance…

I don’t know if this is right. The money seems to be in customized Arm-based chips for now and I think for quite a while still. Apple and Nuvia might take Arm to crazy new levels with their customizations but all their chips will still be Arm at their core, which seems to be a pretty nice place to be in for SoftBank. Surely once Apple blows the doors off everything else more new licensees will follow, no? I think Arm has a lot of growth left in it, even if RISC-V takes off.
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