Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown • Hacker News Board

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#11

Post by christophilus » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 11:56 AM UTC

bananaface wrote: post #6

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article already provides a more likely educated guess: "By staying home, some pregnant women may have experienced less stress from work and commuting, gotten more sleep and received more support from their families, the researchers said." I am not saying air pollution should be dismissed as a factor, but the elephant in the room is that the stress levels experienced in a _lot_ of workplaces are not compat…

Being in a global pandemic is arguably much more stressful than work. I'm much more stressed than I would be in an office. Could be the particular variety of stress, but that's post-hoc rationalisation. A good piece of general evidence I once heard against this is: premature births & miscarriages did not increase in London during The Blitz (I think they may have even reduced). There's a big narrative around stress an…

Most likely, pregnant women who aren’t working can rest more. They can sit when the want, go to the restroom when the want, etc. These are things that take a cumulative toll when working / add a cumulative benefit when not.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#12

Post by ywhjaknskkkw » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:34 PM UTC

bananaface wrote: post #6

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article already provides a more likely educated guess: "By staying home, some pregnant women may have experienced less stress from work and commuting, gotten more sleep and received more support from their families, the researchers said." I am not saying air pollution should be dismissed as a factor, but the elephant in the room is that the stress levels experienced in a _lot_ of workplaces are not compat…

Being in a global pandemic is arguably much more stressful than work. I'm much more stressed than I would be in an office. Could be the particular variety of stress, but that's post-hoc rationalisation. A good piece of general evidence I once heard against this is: premature births & miscarriages did not increase in London during The Blitz (I think they may have even reduced). There's a big narrative around stress an…

You wouldn't know there was anything happening were it not for the news. This is only stressful if you let it be.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#13

Post by 627467 » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:35 PM UTC

Adding my uneducated guess:

- there's some evidence that healthcare in general can benefit from deliberate less intervention by patients and medical staff [0]

- maternity intervention is notorious for intervention (historically for good reasons) yet, today, so much extra can be profited by just pre-planning interventions that are distorting incentives [1]

- pandemic has raised the stakes of leaving home, particularly visiting hospitals so people think twice before deciding to go for intervention - patients preserveer more. That includes expecting mothers.

[0] this an opinion https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/19/patien...

[1] https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/too-much-too-soon-address...

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#14

Post by lolinder » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:38 PM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #7

My labor and delivery nurse MIL speculates it is because of the increase in fevers associated with Covid. More young moms coming in with fevers and testing positive with Covid.

Fevers cause fewer preterm births? Can you explain how that works?

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#15

Post by paublyrne » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

627467 wrote: post #13

Adding my uneducated guess: - there's some evidence that healthcare in general can benefit from deliberate less intervention by patients and medical staff [0] - maternity intervention is notorious for intervention (historically for good reasons) yet, today, so much extra can be profited by just pre-planning interventions that are distorting incentives [1] - pandemic has raised the stakes of leaving home, particularly…

This seems plausible if induced labours were not excluded from the data sets.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#16

Post by ajuc » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

appleflaxen wrote: post #4

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article already provides a more likely educated guess: "By staying home, some pregnant women may have experienced less stress from work and commuting, gotten more sleep and received more support from their families, the researchers said." I am not saying air pollution should be dismissed as a factor, but the elephant in the room is that the stress levels experienced in a _lot_ of workplaces are not compat…

My experience has been that people have a net greater degree of stress right now vs. pre-pandemic. People are changing interpersonal work stress for interpersonal family stress which is itself magnified by the circumstances, plus the stress of a pandemic. I have no idea what the cause could be, but to argue that "premie births are down because stress is down" can't possibly by tested right now, when stress is at an a…

I would love to see a proper experiment testing that.

From anegdotal evidence it seems to me interpersonal relations in families got better because of lockdowns and working remotely.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#17

Post by DoingIsLearning » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

appleflaxen wrote: post #4

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article already provides a more likely educated guess: "By staying home, some pregnant women may have experienced less stress from work and commuting, gotten more sleep and received more support from their families, the researchers said." I am not saying air pollution should be dismissed as a factor, but the elephant in the room is that the stress levels experienced in a _lot_ of workplaces are not compat…

My experience has been that people have a net greater degree of stress right now vs. pre-pandemic. People are changing interpersonal work stress for interpersonal family stress which is itself magnified by the circumstances, plus the stress of a pandemic. I have no idea what the cause could be, but to argue that "premie births are down because stress is down" can't possibly by tested right now, when stress is at an a…

> Can't possibly by tested right now, when stress is at an all-time high.

I am not sure how to word this but I think there is a distinction between the anxiety experienced during the current pandemic and a more extreme 'high cortisol' 'high adrenaline' stress.

This would be the type of stress you would experience if someone threathened you with a knife or a gun on the street. The problem is that a lot of people experience a very similar hormonal response but induced by for example being berated face-to-face by an abusive employer or getting into a near confrontation with someone in traffic or public transport.

The anxiety you describe is indeed 'stressful' and arguably we all have different experiences but I would speculate that if you experience anxiety about the current situation but in the confort of your home and with all your basic needs met, than perhaps that will still generate less 'hormonal' stress levels than the face-to-face interactions associated with some workplaces, commutes, etc.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#18

Post by 627467 » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

paublyrne wrote: post #15

627467 wrote: post #13

Adding my uneducated guess: - there's some evidence that healthcare in general can benefit from deliberate less intervention by patients and medical staff [0] - maternity intervention is notorious for intervention (historically for good reasons) yet, today, so much extra can be profited by just pre-planning interventions that are distorting incentives [1] - pandemic has raised the stakes of leaving home, particularly…

This seems plausible if induced labours were not excluded from the data sets.

this question will sound as uneducated as the speculation above: aren't induced labours only 1 scenario of (possibly) superfluous intervention?

Also, I couldn't find reference in the article where they describe that data as being excluded..

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#19

Post by bananaface » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #11

bananaface wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in a global pandemic is arguably much more stressful than work. I'm much more stressed than I would be in an office. Could be the particular variety of stress, but that's post-hoc rationalisation. A good piece of general evidence I once heard against this is: premature births & miscarriages did not increase in London during The Blitz (I think they may have even reduced). There's a big narrative around stress an…

Most likely, pregnant women who aren’t working can rest more. They can sit when the want, go to the restroom when the want, etc. These are things that take a cumulative toll when working / add a cumulative benefit when not.

It sounds appealing as an explanation, but so does the general stress argument. I'm skeptical of concrete explanations in general.

Re: Hospitals see significant drop in premature births during lockdown

#20

Post by rightbyte » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

bE9a3S5So8igd3 wrote: post #5

Zealotux wrote: post #2

Uneducated guess: I've read a few studies linking air pollution to pregnancy disorders. Maybe the effects are even stronger than previously thought.

Less drinking/clubs

I guess it is to early for that since most women only accidentally drink during the first two months of pregnancy?