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Be More Unlikeable

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Re: Be More Unlikeable

#11

Post by Taek »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

I think a big part of it is being stubborn about rejecting things that aren't good enough. Steve Jobs and Elon Musk both also have a reputation of perfectionism, and lots of stories of telling their employees to start over because they didn't hit the minimum requirements (or in Musk's case, just firing people outright over seemingly small things).

Especially when one of your employees is pushing you hard for a feature they want or something they spent a lot of time working on, it can be difficult to reject their proposals over and over but by experience I've seen that this can lead to a lot of technical debt or significant compromises on the product.

Over time I'm becoming increasingly in favor of being really stubborn about certain technical choices and product choices, even where it can hurt employee morale.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#12

Post by dhruvkar »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

My 2c - I think being contrarian, over long periods of time, turns you into a jerk, because you have faced all kinds of opposition and subconsciously you've realized that the most effective way to get people to stop arguing with you is to be a jerk.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#13

Post by rjkennedy98 »

MrLeap wrote: post #2

It's 404ing for now, so maybe the contents actually defy the title when I finally will get to RTFA. I have to say, I'm amused by a lot of the contrarian articles showing up on HN recently. There seems to be a growing tendency to shed a lot of the saccharine optimism of the last decade. "Work on unimportant problems" "Be more unlikeable" "How to cope with " "Why you should kill your parents" I wonder if these are port…

I don't agree with most of those, but you can't argue with the last one.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#14

Post by waheoo »

ny2ko wrote: post #3

The only grime I have to pick with this article is it's applicability to all groups. The ability to behave as a jerk or be unlikeable without experiencing retaliation (not simply push back) is a privilege that a lot of underrepresented minorities don't have

What privileged people get away with being jerks without retaliation?

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#15

Post by thisisnico »

waheoo wrote: post #7
hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

Yup, the other popular one is being contrarian. Its a dned epidemic at the moment, I find people arguing things for no other reason than to sound smart bt challenging, usually on a technicality, a really obvious assumption any normal person would take at face value.

So, Narcissism essentially? This is a quality of it. I feel like this runs deep in Tech.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#16

Post by marcus_holmes »

hrktb wrote: post #5

Money quote: > Personally, I've long idolized Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. But most of our heroes got to where they are by being unlikeable, not likable. I fundamentally disagree with that view of being an asshole as an important part of success, but I also feel it has been rehashed an incredible amount of times already. A slightly different take on this is the "don't rock the boat" mentality. This is usually a counter…

Every co-working venue seems to have at least one idiot wandering around in a black turtleneck being deliberately selfish and rude to everyone.

Never seen one of them actually be successful at anything except annoying people.

So far my personal "black turtleneck success ratio" is about 100:1 failure/success, and I never met the single success. I include Elizabeth Holmes, who I haven't met either, on the failure side.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#17

Post by antepodius »

prohobo wrote: post #9
sillysaurusx wrote: post #4

I don't think the current social climate is conducive to this advice anymore. It was probably helpful in around 2008 to 2015. It's hard to think of a situation where being unlikable is an advantage, today. Even in situations pg likes to point out – for example, if you think for yourself, you often upset others – you can do that privately rather than publicly, and still get the same advantage. EDIT: there is one situa…

I think the article's title is click bait. It goes on to essentially say that not conforming to others' ideas isn't necessarily a bad thing, and often contributes to success. Seems pretty obvious to me. The author misconstrues (maybe only in order to twist the message to fit the title) being a jerk with being independent and taking risks. Were some change-makers also jerks? Yeah, but it's not a rule, it's just more v…

If you're uncompromising on some issue, someone, somewhere will perceive you as a jerk.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#18

Post by uberman »

waheoo wrote: post #14
ny2ko wrote: post #3

The only grime I have to pick with this article is it's applicability to all groups. The ability to behave as a jerk or be unlikeable without experiencing retaliation (not simply push back) is a privilege that a lot of underrepresented minorities don't have

What privileged people get away with being jerks without retaliation?

(IMHO) White men get away with being authoritarian jerks in much larger numbers than other categories.

This is not to say that all white men are jerks or that some who are are not also called out as such. Nor is this a suggestion that being an authoritarian jerk and being respected for it or getting away with it or given a pass for it is exclusive to white men.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#19

Post by coffeemaniac »

ngngngng wrote: post #8
ny2ko wrote: post #3

The only grime I have to pick with this article is it's applicability to all groups. The ability to behave as a jerk or be unlikeable without experiencing retaliation (not simply push back) is a privilege that a lot of underrepresented minorities don't have

> underrepresented minorities To paraphrase Brene Brown, any conversation on privilege that excludes class is bullshit. The ability to be unlikable without it ruining your life (never mind using it to your advantage) is largely a privilege of class. No one in 2020 is immune to being "cancelled". But if you have money, it won't ruin your life.

I don't think OP's comment was meant to dismiss any effects of class intersection, and in fact any serious analysis will account for that significant overlap.

Re: Be More Unlikeable

#20

Post by Minor49er »

uberman wrote: post #18
waheoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What privileged people get away with being jerks without retaliation?

(IMHO) White men get away with being authoritarian jerks in much larger numbers than other categories. This is not to say that all white men are jerks or that some who are are not also called out as such. Nor is this a suggestion that being an authoritarian jerk and being respected for it or getting away with it or given a pass for it is exclusive to white men.

This is going to be a tough claim to prove
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