It's worth pointing out that for many home security products, sharing information with the police is a feature--even a selling point.
Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
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Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ring cameras record in public, not your bathroom. What a straw man.
It's not a straw man, because I'm not accusing anyone of making a pro-giving-police-recordings-of-bathrooms argument. On the contrary, I'm assuming we all agree that giving police recordings of what we do in the bathroom would be invasive. This is the basis of a further argument. Ironically, accusing me of making a straw man argument in this case, is a straw man argument. ;)
Agreed, it was a red herring not a straw man. This dialogue sure benefitted from your persuit of clarity. ";)"
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#13Cameras record facts. What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? I can see not sharing the videos to the public, who are notorious for bad and racist judgement, but if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
Cameras record evidence, not facts. That distinction is important to keep in mind.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#14A really odd post. I am open to the argument but don’t think Mozilla makes it here. The only piece of evidence they cite for harm— hyperlinked to the phrase “facilitate racial profiling”— leads to a think piece by someone a little creeped out by posts on Nextdoor, which doesn’t mention Ring at all. I get that people don’t love surveillance. But the evidence is not here that a homeowner or renter’s decision to install…
I do not feel that "Cops are natural aggressors" needs further litigation but agree on the rest. However, how do you find Ring cameras protect your packages from theft? Do package thieves notice the camera and avoid your house, or do you send the video to the police who find the person based on their appearance or vehicle? If the former, why does the camera need to even be functional? And if the latter, why is the "cloud" necessary compared to a Ubiquiti style camera, or if you prefer a cloud camera, one from a company other than Ring who has shown extreme eagnerness to use close relationships with law enforcement as a form of marketing?
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#15A really odd post. I am open to the argument but don’t think Mozilla makes it here. The only piece of evidence they cite for harm— hyperlinked to the phrase “facilitate racial profiling”— leads to a think piece by someone a little creeped out by posts on Nextdoor, which doesn’t mention Ring at all. I get that people don’t love surveillance. But the evidence is not here that a homeowner or renter’s decision to install…
I do not feel that "Cops are natural aggressors" needs further litigation but agree on the rest. However, how do you find Ring cameras protect your packages from theft? Do package thieves notice the camera and avoid your house, or do you send the video to the police who find the person based on their appearance or vehicle? If the former, why does the camera need to even be functional? And if the latter, why is the "c…
I'm a bit confused by the question. Why should people buying home security products see a close relationship with law enforcement as a negative?
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#16Why is Mozilla getting involved here at all? I would rather my browser manufacturer stay out of politics and activism. It is a customer’s choice to share footage with the police. Why wouldn’t we want to help police identify criminals more quickly?
The Mozilla Foundation is organized to be an internet activism company. They spun off their browser development efforts into a subsidiary (confusingly named the Mozilla Corporation) so that they could focus on activism.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#17I support this piecemeal protest, but ultimately we really just need to defund and abolish the police in the US as they are known today and replace them with a new and different organization dedicated to public safety, that is actually legally required to help people (the police are not), and that has huge consequences for integrity failures such as lying.
Yeah, because the second time everything will work as intended? Whatever you measure there are always going to be some loopholes causing unintended behaviour. Why would imposing those consequences on the current police system not give your desired outcome?
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#18Cameras record facts. What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? I can see not sharing the videos to the public, who are notorious for bad and racist judgement, but if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
It is a police problem, and the purpose of initiatives like this is to make clear that our government is failing us and we need to start using other methods to get the problem of racism in policing under control, including pressuring the private sector to deny them tools that they are seemingly incapable of not abusing when given access.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#19A really odd post. I am open to the argument but don’t think Mozilla makes it here. The only piece of evidence they cite for harm— hyperlinked to the phrase “facilitate racial profiling”— leads to a think piece by someone a little creeped out by posts on Nextdoor, which doesn’t mention Ring at all. I get that people don’t love surveillance. But the evidence is not here that a homeowner or renter’s decision to install…
Hurting someone's privacy is in and of itself harm. Allowing law enforcement unrestricted access exacerbates this problem, however even without that I've already seen quite a few videos (made by ring cameras, or similar) posted, usually without any attempts at anonymization.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#20It's cool to signal your virtue - until you are the victim of a crime! Then the police better get the video from cameras in the neighborhood.