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Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

bbc.com

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Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#11

Post by thatoneuser »

sebmellen wrote: post #7
b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

Even in context, the whole concept is a bit strange. If I read something like this, coming from just 40 years ago, it would seem absurd. I strongly dislike the urge of modern humans to categorize and analyze everything (very non-tech sounding, I know).

Was just strolling through a park yesterday and walked across a duck with a big tag on each leg. Thought to myself that even in seeking nature, nothings natural. We know down to the family level what the animals are doing.

It can have it's upsides, but it's also disgusting in its own way. And just like you I thought to myself how I love analysis, but I don't have enough confidence in fellow men to feel ok with them doing the analysis.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#13

Post by minikites »

JaceLightning wrote: post #12

I'd argue that no one appears on a map. Buildings and roads do.

Where did the buildings and roads come from? Why do they serve the people they do and not different people? How does the land shape buildings, roads, and people? Maps are important tools for our understanding of the world.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#14

Post by PuffinBlue »

nelaboras wrote: post #10
b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

I think you're missing the point and purposefully misinterpreting this statement. Its not about tracking these people, its about allowing them to participate in today's world - from healthcare to mail.

There it is: the siren call of the proselytising do gooder.

My advancements will succour thee and into the warm boosm of modernity embrace.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#15

Post by new2628 »

b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

There are some nice essays on this concept called "legibility" -- where modern societies hate those systems that are "illegible" in the sense of not being fully mapped, characterized, understood.

In most developed countries this is the attitude towards wildlife for example. Unless all migratory birds are counted, their nests photographed, their legs tagged, their beaks measured and catalogued, it is as if they wouldn't exist. This is considered a shortcoming, a deficit, and environmentalists organize "bird tagging" events where they try to remedy the situation. In traditional societies wildlife is just there, and it is fine to leave it "illegible".

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#16

Post by saalweachter »

sebmellen wrote: post #7
b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

Even in context, the whole concept is a bit strange. If I read something like this, coming from just 40 years ago, it would seem absurd. I strongly dislike the urge of modern humans to categorize and analyze everything (very non-tech sounding, I know).

Eh, we have clay tablets thousands of years old that are just lists of things.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#17

Post by new2628 »

nelaboras wrote: post #10
b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

I think you're missing the point and purposefully misinterpreting this statement. Its not about tracking these people, its about allowing them to participate in today's world - from healthcare to mail.

I think it was spot on. Bureaucracies start with a good intention, then become self-serving, and then become viewed as the goal itself.

The problem is not that these people are not mapped, the problem is that you cannot participate in healthcare without being mapped.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#18

Post by AmericanChopper »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #14
nelaboras wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point and purposefully misinterpreting this statement. Its not about tracking these people, its about allowing them to participate in today's world - from healthcare to mail.

There it is: the siren call of the proselytising do gooder. My advancements will succour thee and into the warm boosm of modernity embrace.

I think this specifically relates to a slightly different problem, which is domain experts viewing their domain as being much more important than it actually is. There’s no reason at all to presume that a cartographer would have anything insightful to say about anything aside from cartography. Society has vested interests in many different areas, but cartographers can only be relied upon to have an interest in furthering the goals of cartography.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#19

Post by Angostura »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #14
nelaboras wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point and purposefully misinterpreting this statement. Its not about tracking these people, its about allowing them to participate in today's world - from healthcare to mail.

There it is: the siren call of the proselytising do gooder. My advancements will succour thee and into the warm boosm of modernity embrace.

Absolutely. Let them live and die without sanitation, water and electricity.

Re: Finding the 'invisible' millions who are not on maps

#20

Post by not-void »

nelaboras wrote: post #10
b112 wrote: post #5

"It's shameful that we - as cartographers of the world - don't take enough interest to even know where they are. People are living and dying without appearing on any database." I know. Context. Context . There's nothing wrong with the above, with last sentence in context. But that last sentence makes me cringe, these days. The thought! The very thought that a human being may be anonymous, not counted, not known, not…

I think you're missing the point and purposefully misinterpreting this statement. Its not about tracking these people, its about allowing them to participate in today's world - from healthcare to mail.

yes. because we need them all in database to provide those services.

plus, how would we be able to do any ethnic cleansing without list of undesirables.

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