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Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

stackoverflow.blog

11–20 of 223 posts

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#11
post #2

I think it's similar to when someone switches jobs frequently and complains about every company they've worked at. At some point, you have to realize it's you not them. To me it feels scrum is the person switching jobs constantly and saying people don't get it.

Yeah, no. Scrum is a tool. You can implement it wrong or be very strict with it which kind of isn’t agile, but it’s always a people problem.

Scrum tells you 1) to analyze the way your team works, 2) make improvements, 3) talk to each other. If that sounds reasonable, it’s probably because it is. The mythology of scrum being evil is misguided, I wonder how much of it is caused by engineers forced to use JIRA configured by somebody who doesn’t work with the team.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#12
post #8

I am in a big project which assembles 45 teams and all of them shall adopt Scrum (for various reasons). My observation is that all those teams which have a sustainable pace with regards to architecture, technology, quality, output, social behavior, etc have done so while adopting and embracing Scrum in a clean way since the beginning of their existence as a team. All teams severely struggling with their content of wo…

One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY) the purpose and idea behind it. Don’t worship the cult and don’t fight it because it’s the perfect target of rants, but see the motivation behind it and acknowledge that there may be reasons why it makes sense how it is to some degree. This doesn’t only apply to Scrum but to any other interaction of humans.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#13
post #12
post #8

I am in a big project which assembles 45 teams and all of them shall adopt Scrum (for various reasons). My observation is that all those teams which have a sustainable pace with regards to architecture, technology, quality, output, social behavior, etc have done so while adopting and embracing Scrum in a clean way since the beginning of their existence as a team. All teams severely struggling with their content of wo…

One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY) the purpose and idea behind it. Don’t worship the cult and don’t fight it because it’s the perfect target of rants, but see the motivation behind it and acknowledge that there may be reasons why it makes sense how it is to some degree. This doesn’t only apply…

Could you explain what you mean by the real purpose and idea behind scrum?

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#14
post #13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY) the purpose and idea behind it. Don’t worship the cult and don’t fight it because it’s the perfect target of rants, but see the motivation behind it and acknowledge that there may be reasons why it makes sense how it is to some degree. This doesn’t only apply…

Could you explain what you mean by the real purpose and idea behind scrum?

In short I would say, applying ideas from the agile manifesto while providing cadence and some predictability. But that is a personal opinion.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#15
post #13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY) the purpose and idea behind it. Don’t worship the cult and don’t fight it because it’s the perfect target of rants, but see the motivation behind it and acknowledge that there may be reasons why it makes sense how it is to some degree. This doesn’t only apply…

Could you explain what you mean by the real purpose and idea behind scrum?

Let me try: I think it’s about reflection and continuous improvement and providing a framework to enforce those. Scrum-haters in our group are also notorious for an attitude of negativity and resignation in many matters, while Scrum-friends want to improve all the time and find ways to do so, beyond what is obvious.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#16
I work in the public sector of Denmark, and I’m involved with both developing and procuring solutions. We have quite a lot of them, around 300 for our 10.000 employees, and from a buyers perspective things like Scrum and agile rarely makes a lot of sense. It’s down to the old triangle of time, features, money, which agile and through it scrum mandates at least one has to be flexible. Only that’s now how you buy software. No one is going to give you an unlimited amount of money of time for an uncertain amount of features, and almost nobody has the time to act into your Scrum schedule to prioritise stuff. Because of this, it’s not really how you sell software either. As a result Scrum often becomes a wrapped in a business side that’s very much unified or waterfall process in companies pretending to be agile. I’m not saying it happens everywhere, but I don’t think I’ve ever been involved with a procurement or development process you could truly call agile.

That doesn’t mean you can use scrum, but it does mean that you should be careful about how you do so. If you have a bunch of guys working on different CRUD web-applications, does it really make sense to have them do a stand up every morning? Probably not. But maybe the kanban board still works well. Based on my own experiences you have to be careful and “agile” about how you build your processes to suit your changing needs, but going full strict scrum, is probably never going to work unless you’re a major tech company.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#17
post #11
post #2

I think it's similar to when someone switches jobs frequently and complains about every company they've worked at. At some point, you have to realize it's you not them. To me it feels scrum is the person switching jobs constantly and saying people don't get it.

Yeah, no. Scrum is a tool. You can implement it wrong or be very strict with it which kind of isn’t agile, but it’s always a people problem. Scrum tells you 1) to analyze the way your team works, 2) make improvements, 3) talk to each other. If that sounds reasonable, it’s probably because it is. The mythology of scrum being evil is misguided, I wonder how much of it is caused by engineers forced to use JIRA configure…

No true scrum.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#18
Very productive individuals that don’t work as a team

I refuse to have those people on my team. One person who's twice as productive as everyone else sounds great, but if that person's work doesn't fit well and makes everyone else's work harder it always been a net loss in my experience. I'd prefer my team works well together than have some "brilliant loner" join it.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#19
Scrum, Kanban, scrumban, tickets with predefined checkins... all can work.

"Formal scrum" only exists to sell books, certs, classes; but more importantly to give justification or a "fix" to failed project managers and leaders.

A process will not fix a team that has bad teamwork, is not productive, and/or has bad communication/leadership/management.

Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?

#20
post #18

Very productive individuals that don’t work as a team I refuse to have those people on my team. One person who's twice as productive as everyone else sounds great, but if that person's work doesn't fit well and makes everyone else's work harder it always been a net loss in my experience. I'd prefer my team works well together than have some "brilliant loner" join it.

It's a matter of management. Brilliant people can be very useful. Even team players may not work with all other team players. Gotta find the right fit.
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