Tons of microplastic rain onto western US • Hacker News Board

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#11

Post by briefcomment » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

scottlocklin wrote: post #4

I don't like plastic in the air any more than anyone else does, but 1) stop wearing those stupid fucking polyester hoodies (and other artificial fibers; aka your socks, gym shirts and underpants) -that's where most of it comes from. I'm looking at you, SF hacker nerds. 2) Even assuming the entire population of the Western US breathed all that plastic waste in and it was permanently deposited in the lungs: 1000e3 kg/…

Praying for cotton and wool to become stylish. And I hope we get creative with natural fibers like linen, beech fiber, spider silk, et.

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#12

Post by SamReidHughes » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

minerjoe wrote: post #5

In some just universe, oil == pure evil. It's underground for a reason and poking a million painful needles into Mother Earth to suck it out and spew it into every biome is bound to have implications on our own health. As above, so below.

Oil was bubbling to the surface of the Earth before we harvested the stuff that was easy to get at.

Not that microplastics are okay -- they're my biggest environmental concern -- but oil itself is "natural".

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#13

Post by weaksauce » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:24 AM UTC

scottlocklin wrote: post #7

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10mg per year is potentially a much bigger problem due to biological magnification - i.e. everything below us in the food chain is exposed to the same 10mg per year, so we accumulate the sum of whatever our food sources have consumed.

You aren't absorbing 10g, 10mg or 1mg of plastic in your lungs every year. Most of it is falling on the ground and being turned into dirt. It's gross and people should do something about it, but it is a neurotic worry rather than a real problem. Most accounts (including this one) even have the temerity to try to link plastic bottles to it (which, also gross, are not a problem as far as plastic fibers in the environme…

> It's gross and people should do something about it, but it is a neurotic worry rather than a real problem.

I wonder if it is going to be more like lead where at the time it was thought to be benignish and as the evidence mounted it was clear just how destructive it was.

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#14

Post by na85 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

mey wrote: post #8

minerjoe wrote: post #5

In some just universe, oil == pure evil. It's underground for a reason and poking a million painful needles into Mother Earth to suck it out and spew it into every biome is bound to have implications on our own health. As above, so below.

Oil has horrible consequences, but your rational for it being evil by being out of "reach" isn't very enlightening. By your logic we should not tap aquifers for drinking water, but mass desalination is fine. Instead, oil is bad because. It's not renewable, it's refinement/combustion is readily linked to cancer and other deadly/health issues, extraction/transport routinely kills ecosystems/creates toxic waste sites.

Mass desalination via solar energy seems like it would be a huge win for the environment. Plus you could sell the salt.

I wonder if it's feasible.

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#15

Post by ggm » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

na85 wrote: post #14

mey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil has horrible consequences, but your rational for it being evil by being out of "reach" isn't very enlightening. By your logic we should not tap aquifers for drinking water, but mass desalination is fine. Instead, oil is bad because. It's not renewable, it's refinement/combustion is readily linked to cancer and other deadly/health issues, extraction/transport routinely kills ecosystems/creates toxic waste sites.

Mass desalination via solar energy seems like it would be a huge win for the environment. Plus you could sell the salt. I wonder if it's feasible.

Desal plants cause localised brine concentration and screw ecology. If you built them at Salinas (salt pans) maybe that would be ok, and we'd get more flamingoes once the brine shrimp population rose. So you need strong solar and large flat expanses. North Africa? There was a serious proposal to sell solar power to Europe from north Africa. Maybe this is the triple play?

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#16

Post by 14 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

weaksauce wrote: post #13

scottlocklin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't absorbing 10g, 10mg or 1mg of plastic in your lungs every year. Most of it is falling on the ground and being turned into dirt. It's gross and people should do something about it, but it is a neurotic worry rather than a real problem. Most accounts (including this one) even have the temerity to try to link plastic bottles to it (which, also gross, are not a problem as far as plastic fibers in the environme…

> It's gross and people should do something about it, but it is a neurotic worry rather than a real problem. I wonder if it is going to be more like lead where at the time it was thought to be benignish and as the evidence mounted it was clear just how destructive it was.

Or maybe it will show that humans can manage the plastic over their life times but maybe insects can not. It certainly seems to coincide with the declining bug population and increasing plastic use.

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#17

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:49 AM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #10

scottlocklin wrote: post #4

I don't like plastic in the air any more than anyone else does, but 1) stop wearing those stupid fucking polyester hoodies (and other artificial fibers; aka your socks, gym shirts and underpants) -that's where most of it comes from. I'm looking at you, SF hacker nerds. 2) Even assuming the entire population of the Western US breathed all that plastic waste in and it was permanently deposited in the lungs: 1000e3 kg/…

> I'm looking at you, SF hacker nerds. I just wear what they hand out.

'vendorwear'

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#18

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

14 wrote: post #16

weaksauce wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's gross and people should do something about it, but it is a neurotic worry rather than a real problem. I wonder if it is going to be more like lead where at the time it was thought to be benignish and as the evidence mounted it was clear just how destructive it was.

Or maybe it will show that humans can manage the plastic over their life times but maybe insects can not. It certainly seems to coincide with the declining bug population and increasing plastic use.

[deleted]

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#19

Post by mr_toad » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

minerjoe wrote: post #5

In some just universe, oil == pure evil. It's underground for a reason and poking a million painful needles into Mother Earth to suck it out and spew it into every biome is bound to have implications on our own health. As above, so below.

It’s underground because anaerobic decay of organic material with heat and pressure produces oil. Chemicals aren’t inherently good or evil. Some, like oxygen, we’ve evolved to live with, while some we haven’t had the chance.

In millions of years something will probably evolve to eat all this plastic, just like it did with cellulose.

Re: Tons of microplastic rain onto western US

#20

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:58 AM UTC

ggm wrote: post #15

na85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass desalination via solar energy seems like it would be a huge win for the environment. Plus you could sell the salt. I wonder if it's feasible.

Desal plants cause localised brine concentration and screw ecology. If you built them at Salinas (salt pans) maybe that would be ok, and we'd get more flamingoes once the brine shrimp population rose. So you need strong solar and large flat expanses. North Africa? There was a serious proposal to sell solar power to Europe from north Africa. Maybe this is the triple play?

I've looked at Desalination in Southern California. One thing they're trying is to mix the saline water with waste water discharge. One assumes that's better. Other thing I found when poking about is the energy expenditure for some of LA's water sources is close to that of desalination.

I think I'm firmly down on the side of I'm against desalination if it just means more water for almonds. For desalination if it means replacing expensive imported water sources and leaving more water for what's left of the states natural environment.

I feel like things are complicated with a inescapable level of fucked.