Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#11

Post by ManuelKiessling » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:40 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least BaFin boss Felix Hufeld admitted they messed up and that the whole thing was the biggest debacle he ever witnessed. This is rare, and I find it respectable. But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend.

> But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend. Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough. Heavy industry, consumer goods, banks, insurances. The only IT company other than Wirecard is SAP and it is not exactly known for innovation. Everyone, especially politics, wanted Wirecard to succeed: the only actually somewhat innovative IT company in the DAX. It's the same pattern with th…

> Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough.

This, by definition, cannot be an explanation, because what's in the DAX and what's not is based solely on the numbers of the listed companies. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAX#Auswahlkriterien

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#12

Post by sushshshsh » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:42 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #7

djpr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany doesn't have many "unicorns" so politics will protect them until way too late, for the companies, for the share/stakeholders and the planet. Interesting. Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Is it a fear of being stale, comparisons to Silicon Valley & Asian tech scene, or something else? I'm curious if you have more insight on this?

> Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital (and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas), banks (across the EU) w…

May I also additionally ask how on Earth a 50k salary for a software engineer is at all justified? After paying taxes and rent, it seems to me there is not much money left over for saving or lifestyle spending?

It seems like an unfair situation

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#13

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:44 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #7

djpr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany doesn't have many "unicorns" so politics will protect them until way too late, for the companies, for the share/stakeholders and the planet. Interesting. Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Is it a fear of being stale, comparisons to Silicon Valley & Asian tech scene, or something else? I'm curious if you have more insight on this?

> Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital (and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas), banks (across the EU) w…

Who says the US doesn't follow the Basel framework? https://www.federalreserve.gov/supervisionreg/basel/basel-de...

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#14

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:51 AM UTC

djpr wrote: post #5

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend. Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough. Heavy industry, consumer goods, banks, insurances. The only IT company other than Wirecard is SAP and it is not exactly known for innovation. Everyone, especially politics, wanted Wirecard to succeed: the only actually somewhat innovative IT company in the DAX. It's the same pattern with th…

> Germany doesn't have many "unicorns" so politics will protect them until way too late, for the companies, for the share/stakeholders and the planet. Interesting. Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Is it a fear of being stale, comparisons to Silicon Valley & Asian tech scene, or something else? I'm curious if you have more insight on this?

There is a profound lack of developers to start. I was in a German startup and it was awesome. Product didn't pan out for the mass market (medical devices) but the few devices we build by hand are now used for studies in clinics. So it wasn't at all wasted. Software sucks though because I wrote it shortly after finishing my studies with negligible experience. But it works at least. I got support from another developer at some point into the project, but finding qualified people was basically impossible.

Still, developers are probably mostly active in traditional industries. Manufacturing needs software experts for example, the product isn't necessarily software itself. There are advantages and disadvantages to that. Overall I don't think Germany/EU is friendly for startups. There are grants for some business ideas, but it is mostly older established folk that know the details of successfully getting capital.

In general, I think there is a huge fear of being "left behind digitally". Not so much in the industry itself than in politics or on a personal social level. The demographics responsible for implementing digital innovations often speak english and just use international solutions. There is little "local patriotism" in software. Perhaps there is also a strong idealism which lets people get involved in open source instead of creating business models and market digital services. Again, advantages and disadvantages.

edit: To the question about the kind of medical devices perhaps in reaction to the "shitty" software I mentioned: medical devices that cannot kill you and were mostly for diagnostic support. It was safe, the software "architecture" was all over the place though.

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#15

Post by neximo64 » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:57 AM UTC

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #3

matsche wrote: post #2

it baffles me that it had to come this far. There were warning signs all over it. The German BaFin messed up so badly that one must either fundamentally doubt theircompetence or question their integrity.

At least BaFin boss Felix Hufeld admitted they messed up and that the whole thing was the biggest debacle he ever witnessed. This is rare, and I find it respectable. But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend.

How would you find it respectable that the BaFin leader basically describes it as if he's a spectator, even after?

The arrest is one thing, it would be interesting to see if there's jail time. The other executives responsible haven't even been fired and just shuffled around Wirecard.

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#16

Post by pythonwizz » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #14

djpr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany doesn't have many "unicorns" so politics will protect them until way too late, for the companies, for the share/stakeholders and the planet. Interesting. Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Is it a fear of being stale, comparisons to Silicon Valley & Asian tech scene, or something else? I'm curious if you have more insight on this?

There is a profound lack of developers to start. I was in a German startup and it was awesome. Product didn't pan out for the mass market (medical devices) but the few devices we build by hand are now used for studies in clinics. So it wasn't at all wasted. Software sucks though because I wrote it shortly after finishing my studies with negligible experience. But it works at least. I got support from another develope…

What kind of medical devices did you build?

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#17

Post by jlangenauer » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:05 AM UTC

sushshshsh wrote: post #12

mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital (and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas), banks (across the EU) w…

May I also additionally ask how on Earth a 50k salary for a software engineer is at all justified? After paying taxes and rent, it seems to me there is not much money left over for saving or lifestyle spending? It seems like an unfair situation

Why is it unfair? No-one is forcing anyone to accept development work for 50k per year, yet there are plenty of people happy to do it.

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#18

Post by xchaotic » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:12 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least BaFin boss Felix Hufeld admitted they messed up and that the whole thing was the biggest debacle he ever witnessed. This is rare, and I find it respectable. But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend.

> But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend. Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough. Heavy industry, consumer goods, banks, insurances. The only IT company other than Wirecard is SAP and it is not exactly known for innovation. Everyone, especially politics, wanted Wirecard to succeed: the only actually somewhat innovative IT company in the DAX. It's the same pattern with th…

As one person in Germany explained to me - there is no corruption at the low level - it is not worth it for the policeman to lose a nice salary and a pension for a few hundred euros bribe. So you will get a speeding ticket everytime and Germany is known for that sort of 'solidity'. On the higher end, however, the stakes and balances are different - high pay is frowned upon and owners of Aldi supermarkets etc are known for their frugality and driving second hand cars. So if one wants to make big money - it needs to be under the radar, possibly illegal and bribes for big infra projects are common.

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#19

Post by Tomte » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

sushshshsh wrote: post #12

mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital (and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas), banks (across the EU) w…

May I also additionally ask how on Earth a 50k salary for a software engineer is at all justified? After paying taxes and rent, it seems to me there is not much money left over for saving or lifestyle spending? It seems like an unfair situation

And yet, people manage to buy houses and fly on vacations on that income.

Re: Former Wirecard CEO Markus Braun arrested

#20

Post by ThePhysicist » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:46 AM UTC

djpr wrote: post #5

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend. Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough. Heavy industry, consumer goods, banks, insurances. The only IT company other than Wirecard is SAP and it is not exactly known for innovation. Everyone, especially politics, wanted Wirecard to succeed: the only actually somewhat innovative IT company in the DAX. It's the same pattern with th…

> Germany doesn't have many "unicorns" so politics will protect them until way too late, for the companies, for the share/stakeholders and the planet. Interesting. Is there a strong feeling of innovation/unicorn envy among the wider business culture in Germany? Is it a fear of being stale, comparisons to Silicon Valley & Asian tech scene, or something else? I'm curious if you have more insight on this?

I mean SAP has roughly 30 BN € in revenue and according to their marketing more than 70 % of all transactions worldwide run through an SAP system. If that's not a "unicorn" company I really don't know what qualifies. You could of course argue that SAP is quite old already (founded in 1972, soon to be 50 years old), but so is e.g. Intel (founded in 1968).

It's true we missed the boat on the second and third waves of IT companies, but there are many unicorns in the manufacturing sector that most people in IT have just never heard of because it's outside of their bubble, these companies often dominate the world market in their respective segments though. For example, do you associate Germany with 3D printing? Probably not. Well, turns out some of the leading companies in industrial 3D printing technology were created here, in 2016 GE for example tried to acquire Germany-based SLM Solutions for 1.4 BN €.