Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire • Hacker News Board

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#11

Post by edw519 » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 3:41 PM UTC

This article completely misses the point. Instead of citing outlying cases, maybe it should have dealt with the elephant in the living room:

Vietnam

College students in the 60's weren't "playing politics". They were protesting an illegal, immoral, and unwinnable war. Hell, half the men on campus were there so they wouldn't have to go to Vietnam.

I imagine today's generation of professors would feel a little differently if TV news showed maimed soldiers in Iraq every night, their classes were full of young men who didn't want to be drafted, and their campuses were occupied by armed National Guardsmen who shot unarmed students.

[Prediction: This will be voted up by those who actually experienced the absurdity of the 60's and voted down by those who can't imagine it could have been that bad. Since the average age in this community is probably below 40, this post will end up negative.]

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#12

Post by edw519 » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 3:54 PM UTC

hugh wrote: post #10

jimbokun wrote: post #5

"A seminar on great books at Princeton jointly taught by two philosophers, the left-wing Cornel West and the right-wing Robert P. George." I'd like to hear that.

Perhaps, but I'd prefer a seminar on great books taught my one really good professor who knew how to keep his own political views from tainting his views on literature.

one really good professor who knew how to keep his own political views from tainting his views

You mean like a math or science professor?

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#13

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 3:58 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #11

This article completely misses the point. Instead of citing outlying cases, maybe it should have dealt with the elephant in the living room: Vietnam College students in the 60's weren't "playing politics". They were protesting an illegal, immoral, and unwinnable war. Hell, half the men on campus were there so they wouldn't have to go to Vietnam. I imagine today's generation of professors would feel a little different…

Professors have always been more liberal and left-leaning than the general population. This goes back further than a hundred years in my reckoning. For instance in the 20s and 30s there was a large percentage of academics who thought communism was the best choice for western civilization.

Vietnam has little to do with it.

Interesting (to me) is the tendency for left-leaning progressives to continue to live and fight battles from the past. The recent Iraq war has caused some to try to replay Vietnam. The coming nomination of Obama is very JFK-ish. We're having a very 60-ish discussion on how man is immoral in his treatment of the environment. I always thought the conservatives were the ones who lived in the past, but I think that has changed over the last five years or so.

My opinion only. Do not operate heavy machinery after reading this comment.

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#14

Post by hugh » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 4:04 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #12

hugh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I'd prefer a seminar on great books taught my one really good professor who knew how to keep his own political views from tainting his views on literature.

one really good professor who knew how to keep his own political views from tainting his views You mean like a math or science professor?

Funnily enough, I was reading Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare last night, and thinking how great it was to have literature explained by a man with a clear scientific mind instead of a mushy literary one.

Unfortunately, the Asimovs of this world are few and far between.

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#15

Post by hugh » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 4:08 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #8

I think the problem is you have liberals but not actual conservatives. The conservatives we currently have, care more about gay marriage than keeping the government small and having a balanced budget.

An overgeneralization, of course. It's just that those are the ones you hear most about in the media. One could speculate that left-wing media sources are more comfortable portraying the crazy conservatives than the sensible ones (just as Fox News is more comfortable portraying the crazy leftists than the sensible ones).

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#16

Post by edw519 » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 4:09 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

edw519 wrote: post #11

This article completely misses the point. Instead of citing outlying cases, maybe it should have dealt with the elephant in the living room: Vietnam College students in the 60's weren't "playing politics". They were protesting an illegal, immoral, and unwinnable war. Hell, half the men on campus were there so they wouldn't have to go to Vietnam. I imagine today's generation of professors would feel a little different…

Professors have always been more liberal and left-leaning than the general population. This goes back further than a hundred years in my reckoning. For instance in the 20s and 30s there was a large percentage of academics who thought communism was the best choice for western civilization. Vietnam has little to do with it. Interesting (to me) is the tendency for left-leaning progressives to continue to live and fight…

Vietnam affected everything in the 60's. The only popular media (TV news) was broadcast from there every night. It changed popular culture, economics, and politics. And it spilled over onto college campuses, the only refuge for young men 18 to 21 who didn't want to go to Vietnam or Canada. This was the environment that produced today's retiring generation of professors cited by OP, which never even mentioned Vietnam.

Vietnam and Iraq have little in common stateside by design. Today's political leaders weren't about to make the same mistake twice. So no TV news and no draft. Amazing how well it's worked, huh?

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#17

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 4:16 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #8

I think the problem is you have liberals but not actual conservatives. The conservatives we currently have, care more about gay marriage than keeping the government small and having a balanced budget.

[deleted]

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#18

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 4:37 PM UTC

hugh wrote: post #9

As a non-leftist who moves in academic circles, I have to say it's still very difficult. Even in the hard sciences, I find that every social gathering I go to winds up turning into a classic left-wing whine-about-everything, and I have to bite my tongue. More than once I've wanted to get out of academia, just because the lack of intellectual diversity was getting too much for me. And that's leaving aside the direct h…

[deleted]

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#19

Post by gaius » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 5:03 PM UTC

hugh wrote: post #9

As a non-leftist who moves in academic circles, I have to say it's still very difficult. Even in the hard sciences, I find that every social gathering I go to winds up turning into a classic left-wing whine-about-everything, and I have to bite my tongue. More than once I've wanted to get out of academia, just because the lack of intellectual diversity was getting too much for me. And that's leaving aside the direct h…

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-20n1-1.html

Re: Campuses getting less political as '60s professors retire

#20

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Jul 03, 2008, 5:07 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

edw519 wrote: post #11

This article completely misses the point. Instead of citing outlying cases, maybe it should have dealt with the elephant in the living room: Vietnam College students in the 60's weren't "playing politics". They were protesting an illegal, immoral, and unwinnable war. Hell, half the men on campus were there so they wouldn't have to go to Vietnam. I imagine today's generation of professors would feel a little different…

Professors have always been more liberal and left-leaning than the general population. This goes back further than a hundred years in my reckoning. For instance in the 20s and 30s there was a large percentage of academics who thought communism was the best choice for western civilization. Vietnam has little to do with it. Interesting (to me) is the tendency for left-leaning progressives to continue to live and fight…

I don't think it's so much a left-progressive thing as a baby boomer thing. They are about to retire, and want to relive their glory days.

As I recall, it was primarily baby boomers describing Iraq as "another Vietnam!!!" 2 weeks into the invasion. "We haven't won yet? It's a quagmire!"

Oddly, when comparing Obama to JFK, they never seem to remember that JFK stole an election, fought one war incompetently and started another one that turned into a quagmire ("the original Vietnam!!!"). JFK does compare reasonably well to a contemporary politician, but not Obama...