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The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

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Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#11

Post by interestica »

mroll wrote: post #8
cerberusss wrote: post #7

A.E. van Vogt wrote a fantastic SF novel based on the concept of "the map is not the territory". It's called "The Players of Null-A", if I remember correctly. It became a trilogy. I've re-read it multiple times and in fact, had just started reading it again. Some things did not age well since it was written in 1946, but overall fascinating stuff.

The first book is actually called “The World of Null-A”. I picked it up at a local used book store last year and enjoyed it. Haven’t read any more of the trilogy yet.

Even actuallier, the first book was titled "The World of Ā" but "to reduce printing costs, the 1953 and 1964 Ace Books paperback editions were entitled The World of Null-A, and the symbol Ā was replaced with "null-A" throughout the text." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Null-A#Publicatio...

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#12

Post by SuoDuanDao »

Tehchops wrote: post #4

I wonder if it's even useful anymore to consider mental models in the context of financial markets, even if it's just used as a metaphorical warning sign. I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear. With that in mind, no one is ever surprised when the next fat tail u…

Financial markets are also unusually tough because it's such a wicked problem. If there weren't so many smart people trying to predict them, they'd be easier to predict.

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#14

Post by cheschire »

earthboundkid wrote: post #13

What’s interesting are cases where the map is the territory. The Facebook map of your friends just is the graph of your Facebook friends. The chain of command for the military just is the chain of command. Etc.

Ehhh, the chain of command in the military is defined by regulations (the map) because you never know exactly who is going to be incapacitated at any given moment. Therefore while today a peer platoon leader might have no authority over me, if our company commander is killed tomorrow and my peer has seniority, he may suddenly have command authority over the company.

So while I get your point, I wonder how much people miss the map due to obscure knowledge requirements and think it doesn't exist.

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#15

Post by 082349872349872 »

earthboundkid wrote: post #13

What’s interesting are cases where the map is the territory. The Facebook map of your friends just is the graph of your Facebook friends. The chain of command for the military just is the chain of command. Etc.

The map says an O-1 outranks an E-7; the territory says a wise O-1 takes cues from their E-7.

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#16

Post by BurningFrog »

Tehchops wrote: post #4

I wonder if it's even useful anymore to consider mental models in the context of financial markets, even if it's just used as a metaphorical warning sign. I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear. With that in mind, no one is ever surprised when the next fat tail u…

The financial markets are aware of the models of them, and use that knowledge to subvert their expectations.

The financial markets may be the biggest intelligent entity that ever existed.

The only way to second guess them is to figure out a tru theory, and NOT PUBLISH IT. I expect there are many such theories producing a lot of wealth to people who don't talk about it.

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#17

Post by suryabeep »

setgree wrote: post #2

Two great illustrations of this concept from literature come to mind: * Borges's 'On Exactitude in Science' [0] about a map that is as large and as precise as the territory, which renders it useless; * the wonderful Eschaton scene in Infinite Jest [1], with Pemulis screaming: "It’s snowing on the goddamn map , not the territory, you dick ! This point gets made enough over time that one suspects it's an enduring trait…

I saw the title to this post and immediately thought of these two things. I clicked on the comments, and you've already named them. What great writers!

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#18

Post by ssivark »

earthboundkid wrote: post #13

What’s interesting are cases where the map is the territory. The Facebook map of your friends just is the graph of your Facebook friends. The chain of command for the military just is the chain of command. Etc.

Trivially so, but are they even interesting?

Such well-specific label territories are often artificial. Your Facebook social graph is a poor proxy for your actual IRL social network (or whose opinions you interact with the most, etc)

Big bureaucratic organizations (or other less responsive intelligences) often try to force the territory to conform to the map, for convenience of steering, but it seems like there is a significant map/territory mismatch in the generally interesting/important cases.

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#19

Post by jbay808 »

Tehchops wrote: post #4

I wonder if it's even useful anymore to consider mental models in the context of financial markets, even if it's just used as a metaphorical warning sign. I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear. With that in mind, no one is ever surprised when the next fat tail u…

> I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear.

Are you thinking of this book?

If I had to name the single epistemic feat at which modern human civilization is most adequate, the peak of all human power of estimation, I would unhesitatingly reply, “Short-term relative pricing of liquid financial assets, like the price of S&P 500 stocks relative to other S&P 500 stocks over the next three months.” This is something into which human civilization puts an actual effort.

https://equilibriabook.com/inadequacy-and-modesty/

Re: The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)

#20

Post by ska »

FigmentEngine wrote: post #6

even better resource, learn wardley mapping https://medium.com/wardleymaps how to use maps in business

Wouldn't "using maps in business" be subject to precisely the points of this article? How then is this a "better" resource, rather than a tangentially related one?
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