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Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

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Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#11
post #7

The bit about the response of criminal organizations is very interesting. I've heard odd rumors about Japanese career criminals, such as commonly going into the business fully expecting to go to jail. Can any one suggest books / docs on the subject? (Preferably non hollywood-ized).

I've heard good things about "Tokyo Vice" by Jake Adelstein: http://amzn.com/0307475298

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#12

>"Why don't Japanese loot? Because it's not in their culture. How is that culture defined? An absence of looting." immediately followed by: >A better explanation may be structural factors: a robust system of laws that reinforce honesty, a strong police presence, and, ironically, active crime organizations. how is that in any way different from the circular definition the writer just criticized? which I think indicate…

One is circular, one proposes a social mechanism whereby looting will lead to negative consequences for the looter. I'm having a hard time seeing what you think is not different about those two things.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#13
I wonder how many people returning lost goods actually claim the 5-20% they're entitled to. I lost my bag once (with my wallet in it). I went to the police box closest to the area where I'd lost it, and of course they had it. Someone had picked it up and turned it in. The officer I talked to explained to me that the finder was entitled to a percentage, but had checked a box on the form waiving the finder's fee.

And to be honest, I don't think I'd claim anything either if I turned in someone's wallet.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#14

High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

Downvote? How about a response?

> (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

doesn't really contribute anything.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#15
These stories have the odor of propaganda to them.

I'd argue that there's no looting because refugees are penned up in shelters inland, and the coastal towns are pretty much gone.

In Katrina and Haiti, people were stuck in the immediate area of destruction, and didn't have anywhere to go. Remember the guy blogging from the datacenter in New Orleans during the Hurricane? The whole city broke down, there was nowhere to go. In Haiti, the whole place was barely functioning before the earthquake.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#16

High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

I'm not sure why you'd be downvoted for this observation. My week in Japan showed me that fast food employees had a higher level of competence and professionalism than at least a third of the people who I've encountered in my career.

(To say nothing of their US foodservice counterparts. I had an easier time special-ordering a cheeseburger in Kyoto than I would down the street from my home. And wtf, their standards for food are ridiculous. McDonald's, which I loathe, was fucking delicious there.)

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#17
Whether Japan is the ideal or not, society needs to reward productive, mutually beneficial action and discourage parasitic behavior. We couldn't even plant crops if other people could easily reap the results.

The US has been failing at that quite a bit in some areas of the economy. We encourage unwise risk taking, while shifting the consequences to those who produce. That is unscalable and unsustainable.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvote? How about a response?

> (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....) doesn't really contribute anything.

Let me expand: The fact that we find it surprising that the Japanese don't loot says a good deal more about our own low standards for what to expect from an average citizen, given our wealth and power, than it does about the Japanese. And it doesn't put us in a good light either.

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#19

High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

What the hell is a "cultural level"?

How do I gain additional "culture"?

Re: Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

#20

High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

What the hell is a "cultural level"? How do I gain additional "culture"?

Culture is probably both the most difficult and the most important idea in social theory. I think of it as the amount of knowledge and habit you have internalized from the outside world; I internalized saying please and thank you, it is now part of "me." (Not so with elbows on the table). I also internalized punctuality, more or less. I have internalized a lot of books and what one more conventionally thinks of as "culture" (classical music, Russian novels, anything the French make).

One might internalize a predisposition to smooth over conflict, or one might internalize exactly the opposite and learn to start fights at the slightest hint of provocation; if you live in a violent society, the latter serves you well and might be necessary for basic survival, but if you are trying to make a career in an office the former is usually better.

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