‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#11

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:29 AM UTC

wereHamster wrote: post #2

In Minneapolis, where Floyd died, a duty to intervene policy has been on the books since 2016, according to the city’s website. The policy reads: “It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required,” — word for word the same language used by…

It’s kind of fascinating seeing people create new rules for cops, when the problem is that cops don’t follow rules.

What’s needed is an accountability system for cops. Someone capable of punishing cops when they transgress, someone who is not beholden to cops for their day to day operations like local DAs.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#12

Post by diablerouge » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:29 AM UTC

It must be down to accountability. People will break all the rules in the book if consequences are never meted out.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#13

Post by hymnsfm » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:29 AM UTC

An idea I like better is defunding police departments then augmenting the staff with social workers. So much of police training is in dealing with people in crisis situations. Why not bring in experts instead?

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#14

Post by slg » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

grensley wrote: post #3

wereHamster wrote: post #2

In Minneapolis, where Floyd died, a duty to intervene policy has been on the books since 2016, according to the city’s website. The policy reads: “It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required,” — word for word the same language used by…

The officers were all arrested and the entire MPD is potentially getting dismantled, so Dallas might take the policy a bit more seriously.

That was only after days of national and international protests demanding such actions. The entire system is too far gone and needs to be torn down if anyone inside it legitimately views this as a success story.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#15

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

jdsully wrote: post #8

grensley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The officers were all arrested and the entire MPD is potentially getting dismantled, so Dallas might take the policy a bit more seriously.

Would they have been arrested were it not for the national uproar?

Almost certainly not.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#16

Post by hav » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:31 AM UTC

andi999 wrote: post #6

grensley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The officers were all arrested and the entire MPD is potentially getting dismantled, so Dallas might take the policy a bit more seriously.

What does getting dismantled mean? You close and reopen with the same people? Or you close and start from scratch with unexperienced ppl (assuming a large pool of applicants)?

Reduction of capacity, narrowing of capability and resources diverted to other services intended for situations where (armed) police aren’t required.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#17

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #7

wereHamster wrote: post #2

In Minneapolis, where Floyd died, a duty to intervene policy has been on the books since 2016, according to the city’s website. The policy reads: “It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required,” — word for word the same language used by…

Chokeholds were also banned by the NYPD since 1993, decades before Daniel Pantaleo used one to murder Eric Garner. Policies to improve the police’s war on us will be wholly ineffective. We need drastic changes, such as what it looks like Minneapolis is poised to do.

It is stunning at how effective the crackdowns have been at radicalizing the population against the police. Thoughts that were the absolute unthinkable left edge of political discourse are now policy in one city within a week. That’s lightning fast.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#18

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

hymnsfm wrote: post #13

An idea I like better is defunding police departments then augmenting the staff with social workers. So much of police training is in dealing with people in crisis situations. Why not bring in experts instead?

Also, police departments are insanely expensive for what we get as the public.

Excluding pensions Baltimore will pay $268mil, and has a homicide case closure rate of 30%. It’s hard to say that this is a reasonable usage of Baltimore’s resources.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#19

Post by jakelazaroff » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

andi999 wrote: post #6

grensley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The officers were all arrested and the entire MPD is potentially getting dismantled, so Dallas might take the policy a bit more seriously.

What does getting dismantled mean? You close and reopen with the same people? Or you close and start from scratch with unexperienced ppl (assuming a large pool of applicants)?

The idea is to close it and not replace it. The only tool in the police toolbox is violence; despite this, they have become catchall first responders despite being wholly unequipped for most scenarios.

We should treat drug use and mental illness as public health issues. We should treat homelessness by housing and feeding those who want help. We should treat domestic disputes with social work. These are complex issues that deserve specialized responses.

Re: ‘Duty to intervene’: How some US cities are telling cops to police each other

#20

Post by est31 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:35 AM UTC

wereHamster wrote: post #2

In Minneapolis, where Floyd died, a duty to intervene policy has been on the books since 2016, according to the city’s website. The policy reads: “It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required,” — word for word the same language used by…

This is unfair due to the selection bias of news. If such a policy works in 99 cases out of 100, that 1 case makes it into news and skews perception of the policy. Sure, there are people who break out of prisons. But that doesn't mean that prisons can't keep people inside.