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Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

techtudor.blogspot.com

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Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#11

Post by safetyfirstb »

newacct583 wrote: post #4
djohnston wrote: post #2

i recently upgraded ubuntu and had to start dealing with snaps.. of the two i tried to install they were both out of date and i ended up using apt to great success. what was the point of this thing?

> of the two i tried to install Which two? I mean, a package is only as good as its curator. That sounds more like a complaint about Ubuntu's Snap update policy or the community support for whatever you were trying to install than anything about Snap. I don't understand the fuss here. People who want control over the open source software they install still have it, it still works like it always has. People who don't…

I think the issue here is that the apt versions are not always maintained after an app moves to snap releases.

> And in a handful of situations, like large apps with extensive dependencies, or externally managed builds, or needs for cross-distro binary compatibility, Snap has real and tangible advantages.

I see that snaps can offer these advantages, but so can AppImage and FlatPak, and these are even more cross-platform and don't come with the same limited ecosystem.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#12

Post by clircle »

Snaps and flatpak help Linux work for me. My ideal desktop is a stable core with a few select user applications that I can keep current. Thanks to snaps/flatpak I can run Debian stable on my personal desktop, but keep emacs, firefox, and a few more apps at their most recent versions.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#13

Post by hn_throwaway531 »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #7

One of my big things with snap is how it locks the snap into the home directory. I get why they do that but it would be nice to override[1]. In my case I want to play audio files outside of my home directory but VLC doesn’t have access. And VLC now only updates the snaps and not it’s repos so you have to use the snaps.[2] [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1643706 [2] https://www.videolan.org/vl…

>> In my case I want to play audio files outside of my home directory but VLC doesn’t have access

You can try using soft links as a work around.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#14

Post by [deleted] »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #7

One of my big things with snap is how it locks the snap into the home directory. I get why they do that but it would be nice to override[1]. In my case I want to play audio files outside of my home directory but VLC doesn’t have access. And VLC now only updates the snaps and not it’s repos so you have to use the snaps.[2] [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1643706 [2] https://www.videolan.org/vl…

[deleted]

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#15

Post by csdreamer7 »

Honestly this article had some poor arguments. Like Apt being fantastic-it isn't-see below. I do not see what the hate around snaps are for.

Yes, some snaps are not updated, and VLC only working in the home directory as another HN commenter said is a pain.

Snaps still solve a lot of issues on Linux that Windows does not have.

What happens if the new version of your editor breaks some well known plugins?

On Windows you just install the older version from the archives. On Linux you risk dependency issues. Snaps are a single command to switch to an older version. Very important in both the software and media space.

One option is to stay on the LTS version of Blender.

Another is back when I used Atom, one upgrade completely broke a popular plugin for me because of a change in Chrome. I thought it would be fixed quickly so didn't revert the package and I lost the older version in the cache. Took the Atom devs 2 weeks to handle the change to Google Chrome-then Arch maintainer of the Atom package didn't get around to upgrading it for a week or two after that.

Things like apt pinning really don't help you when you discover the issue on your main workstation. Also, doesn't change the fact that it is so much easier to revert on Windows. Snaps make version control even easier to do on Linux then Windows.

The back-end being proprietary is a good argument. but for a company that has worked so long with Linux and Free Software; give Canonical a little trust to release it.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#16

Post by mytailorisrich »

SweetestRug wrote: post #5

I had been an Ubuntu user for almost 16 years, on servers, laptops, and recently containers. The snap situation with Ubuntu is just plain unpalatable, both in principal and in practice. I became so disappointed in the move by Canonical that I finally left Ubuntu altogether and no longer recommend it to friends and colleagues. It takes years to cultivate a garden, but only minutes to destroy it.

The gravy train of owning the platform with an app store like Google and Apple do is just too tempting to resist trying to pull it off, unfortunately.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#17

Post by oarsinsync »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #7

One of my big things with snap is how it locks the snap into the home directory. I get why they do that but it would be nice to override[1]. In my case I want to play audio files outside of my home directory but VLC doesn’t have access. And VLC now only updates the snaps and not it’s repos so you have to use the snaps.[2] [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1643706 [2] https://www.videolan.org/vl…

The website you linked (https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ubuntu.html) says:

> If you wish to install the traditional deb package, it is available as usual via APT, with all security and critical bug fixes. However, there will be no major VLC version updates until the next Ubuntu release.

This is in line with Ubuntu (and Debian) repo policies. You do not get major software updates in between distribution updates unless you use a third party repository. You do get bug fixes and security fixes, and/or can track unstable if you need the bleeding edge.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#18

Post by cocoa19 »

The point of snap is you have one single package for all releases instead of one package for each release.

This reduces the maintenance burden, while also allowing you to have up to date packages.

The way this is done is by bundling all dependencies in your snap package rather than using the system ones.

I think it's a great idea for applications you want to be updated frequently, like VS Code, Chrome, etc.

It's not perfect, e.g. back end is closed source, but I'm glad Ubuntu is giving us options and being at the forefront of package management.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#19

Post by billme »

Largest issue I have with Snap is that it appears to assume the owner of a system is not in best position to make choices for their own systems.

Sure, this might be true for the average user, but it is toxic to the “super user” community that’s in the best position to help support the larger community and may end up pushing them away.

Snap at the very least should have an opt-out feature, if not be opt-in during an install.

More criticisms maybe found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)#Critici...

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#20

Post by Macha »

rlpb wrote: post #9

> The backend is proprietary. GitHub is proprietary. I understand that some people don't accept that either. But if you accept and use GitHub, then you should have no problem with snaps on this basis. Also, on this topic, consider this quote[1]: "We did that experiment with Launchpad; the people who said they wouldn’t use it because it wasn’t open source were the same people promoting a closed source alternative. Whe…

If you don't like Github (or if they make a change in the future that makes you dislike Github), you can use Gitlab CE, Gitea, Gitorius, git over ssh, etc. all open source options while still using the upstream git client.

If you don't like the Snap Store, well, get coding and be prepared to fork the client also.

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