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Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

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Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#11

Post by enitihas »

m0zg wrote: post #10

He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus…

So do you think bookstores are compelled to sell books? How is that free speech? That is compelled speech. And Amazon is not a monopoly in any reasonable definition. You can sell books on 100 different stores and via so many other publishers.

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#12

Post by enitihas »

nix23 wrote: post #6
Spivak wrote: post #5

I don’t really know what anyone in this situation wanted to happen here? Amazon and Apple and Google have been trying to stem the tide of a massive wave of low-quality books and apps hitting their stores trying to make a quick buck off people’s ignorance and fear. Refusing to publish content related to COVID because nobody has the time and resources to go through them all is the best you can do. If they just let peop…

Yeah, his point are not are not good, but if you think about the Bell-Story (the us allowed just one company to take over the phones-lines the other can make the computers), if you look at amazon and google today, that's definitely a mono-pol.

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly?

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#13

Post by _alex_ »

m0zg wrote: post #10

He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus…

First amendment protects you from the government, not corporations

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#14

Post by enitihas »

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-m...). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#15

Post by m0zg »

enitihas wrote: post #11
m0zg wrote: post #10

He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus…

So do you think bookstores are compelled to sell books? How is that free speech? That is compelled speech. And Amazon is not a monopoly in any reasonable definition. You can sell books on 100 different stores and via so many other publishers.

Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. It's sort of like if there was only one manufacturer of a printing press and they forbade you from printing anything they don't like on it.

Also, every time a rebuttal starts with "so", the rest is an attempt at mind reading. Those are always unsuccessful.

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#16

Post by erichocean »

m0zg wrote: post #10

He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus…

> You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf

Not in Germany.

I sell books worldwide on Amazon, and the number of titles that are banned in countries (not just Germany, BTW) is pretty astounding.

And it's mostly not Hitler stuff, either.

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#17

Post by enitihas »

m0zg wrote: post #15
enitihas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think bookstores are compelled to sell books? How is that free speech? That is compelled speech. And Amazon is not a monopoly in any reasonable definition. You can sell books on 100 different stores and via so many other publishers.

Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. It's sort of like if there was only one manufacturer of a printing press and they forbade you from printing anything they don't like on it. Also, every time a rebuttal starts with "so", the rest is an attempt at mind reading. Those are always unsuccessful.

> Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with.

This makes no sense. Companies all have monopolies on their own products. Apple has monopoly on the iPad, which is a similar competing reading device. Sony has monopoly on the PlayStation. Microsoft has monopoly on Office and Xbox. Are you suggesting that all companies should give up the ownership of all of their products?

There are several competing products to Kindle, like Nook and even iPad (which funnily enough, tried to monopolistically engage in price fixing)

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#18

Post by nix23 »

enitihas wrote: post #12
nix23 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, his point are not are not good, but if you think about the Bell-Story (the us allowed just one company to take over the phones-lines the other can make the computers), if you look at amazon and google today, that's definitely a mono-pol.

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly?

Shopping, Data-centers, Live-Streaming, Audio-book's and E-books maybe even logistics.

Edit: Hey Jeff please stop down-voting me, you know it's the truth ;)

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#19

Post by libertine »

enitihas wrote: post #14

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-m... ). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?

Honestly this came to me after I've read your reply, and I think you're onto something:

Is the 50% market share really necessary to claim who's a monopoly?

Maybe it's time to re evaluate the definition of monopoly.

Re: Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

#20

Post by enitihas »

libertine wrote: post #19
enitihas wrote: post #14

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-m... ). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?

Honestly this came to me after I've read your reply, and I think you're onto something: Is the 50% market share really necessary to claim who's a monopoly? Maybe it's time to re evaluate the definition of monopoly.

Sure, let's give politicians a stick to break businesses arbitrarily, since we don't like objective criterias. Got a problem with some CEO, cry monopoly and break it up.
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