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Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

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Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#11

Post by lern_too_spel »

Veen wrote: post #6
foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

It's not so idiotic. Google collects information that people don't want them to collect. That arguably objectionable, even if it's not strictly illegal. It will be interesting to see whether this case gets a sympathetic judge, but I imagine it will end up being dismissed like previous lawsuits of this variety. Nice bit of publicity for the law firm though.

Every website does.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#12

Post by brenden2 »

foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

What Google is doing is wrong. That's literally what the lawsuit is about.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#13

Post by oefrha »

t0mas88 wrote: post #5
simonw wrote: post #3

"According to the suit, the company collects information, including IP addresses and browsing histories, whenever users visit web pages or use an app tied to common Google services, such as Google Analytics and Google Ad Manager." I'd really appreciate some more technical details here. Does this include web server logs that record incoming IP addresses? Is the expectation here that Chrome would set a DNT header in in…

Server logs with IP addresses are acceptable to most European privacy regulators if you only use them for a technical purpose such as debugging. And not keep them longer than needed for that. So practically: logs are fine, delete them after a while. If you store the same information in a permanent database and use it for analysis you're in trouble and should have asked permission. The fact that the user uses a privat…

> The fact that the user uses a private window or other means to indicates they don't want to be tracked probably makes this a more clear case.

That’s a very confusing statement. My server logs don’t filter incoming log entries based on user agent, and certainly not on whether you’re using a “private window” or not.

In addition, the goal of a private/incognito session is to be indistinguishable from regular sessions, otherwise websites can easily discriminate against private sessions (which they’re already trying as hard as they could).

Edit: Wow the number of people on this thread claiming websites should be able to opt people out of logging based on whether they’re using a “private window” (which websites should have absolutely no idea about) makes me question if I’m even on Hacker News.

Edit 2: Chrome sends an X-Client-Data header (which in a sense includes an installation ID, but allegedly has limited entropy) to certain Google properties, and rightfully got a lot of flak for it. It does not do so for incognito sessions. And now we have people arguing that Google should de-incognito incognito sessions to their analytics properties. Crazy stuff.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#14

Post by lern_too_spel »

t0mas88 wrote: post #9
foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

Why is it idiotic to expect Google to respect a users wish not to be tracked? Half the world has laws that require Google to ask permission. Using private browsing mode is a very clear indication the the user does not want to give them that permission. It's really not that hard. Google and Facebook just don't want to understand it.

Apple also doesn't understand it as well as every browser and website in existence. This lawsuit is stupid.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#15

Post by AlexandrB »

foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

Actually I think it nicely highlights the contradictions inherent in Google's monopolistic position. The user clearly expressed an intent to browse "privately" in one Google product - Chrome. The fact that this doesn't then completely block Google Analytics or forward the preference for privacy to other Google properties is a choice that conveniently aligns with Google's ad business but ignores the intent of what the user is trying to do.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#16

Post by dvduval »

I know that Google is making money through use of my personal data. I wish they would be required boldly state on every page that my personal data is being used, and that they are profiting from it. Finally, there should be some steps offered to remedy some of the above such as requesting that parts of the data that would be convenient for me to have deleted would be deleted. And the parts that are inconvenient such as my ability to login to sites I commonly visit could be preserved since that minimum requirements are met so I can easily access those sites.

And while I have no big conspiracy theories at the moment about how Google is doing anything evil, there is certainly no guarantee that something in the future could impact me. For example there could be some bad players working inside Google, Google could be acquired, or the government could take control in some way. these are all things that could be dangerous to me in the future if Google continues to preserve large amounts of my personal information.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#17

Post by Chabsff »

Veen wrote: post #6
foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

It's not so idiotic. Google collects information that people don't want them to collect. That arguably objectionable, even if it's not strictly illegal. It will be interesting to see whether this case gets a sympathetic judge, but I imagine it will end up being dismissed like previous lawsuits of this variety. Nice bit of publicity for the law firm though.

I think the debatable point here is that the lawsuit implies that the problem is that Google is not integrating analytics and Chrome enough. Analytics works in a certain way, and chrome works in another. The expectation that because both products belong to Google, they should treat each other in a special manner (i.e. Site-side Analytics should be behaving differently when encountering a chrome browser) is pretty iffy.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#18

Post by MattGaiser »

t0mas88 wrote: post #9
foota wrote: post #2

This lawsuit is idiotic. They're claiming Google is doing something wrong by tracking users from websites using ad tech when someone uses their browsers private browsing mode.

Why is it idiotic to expect Google to respect a users wish not to be tracked? Half the world has laws that require Google to ask permission. Using private browsing mode is a very clear indication the the user does not want to give them that permission. It's really not that hard. Google and Facebook just don't want to understand it.

> Using private browsing mode is a very clear indication the the user does not want to give them that permission.

How? Incognito is meant to keep your history clear from other people who use the computer. It explicitly does nothing about websites tracking your activity.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#19

Post by corty »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #14
t0mas88 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it idiotic to expect Google to respect a users wish not to be tracked? Half the world has laws that require Google to ask permission. Using private browsing mode is a very clear indication the the user does not want to give them that permission. It's really not that hard. Google and Facebook just don't want to understand it.

Apple also doesn't understand it as well as every browser and website in existence. This lawsuit is stupid.

That the others are behaving badly as well does not excuse Googles behaviour.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#20

Post by paulryanrogers »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #11
Veen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so idiotic. Google collects information that people don't want them to collect. That arguably objectionable, even if it's not strictly illegal. It will be interesting to see whether this case gets a sympathetic judge, but I imagine it will end up being dismissed like previous lawsuits of this variety. Nice bit of publicity for the law firm though.

Every website does.

Not every website controls: the browser, analytics service across large part of the web, and sometimes the OS (Android/ChromeOS)
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