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Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

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Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#12

I am guessing that they'd want you do distribute your program through their "App Store" as a UWP, which is likely subject to sandboxing and will never show the SmartScreen prompts. Making raw Win32 .exe distribution as user-unfriendly as possible is very likely to be a goal of MS.

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Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#13
More walled gardens. Hooray.

This is why we need WASM and web-first development. If the platforms won't empower us to develop and distribute without levying their tax, we need to take our business back to the open web and spend our money on making it the best platform.

Besides, it's a nightmare to have to develop for every single platform when the web is universal. Platforms should pay the cost of making things work on their devices and operating systems, not tens of thousands of independent developers and engineers paying this price N-many times for each walled garden.

We also need to get Google's claws out of the open web (AMP, standards balkanization, etc.)

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#14
I always tell users to Mark the file as trusted before running it, which is easier to do and less subject to difficult to navigate dialogs. I use a message like this:

> To avoid getting security warnings each time you launch the application, right click and select "Properties". Click "Unblock" towards the bottom of the page, and click "OK".

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#15

Another tale from a developer on their experience getting a code signing certificate from a certificate authority: https://twitter.com/hanspagel/status/1262317935898566658

Eh, honestly, that's what getting an SSL cert used to be like 15 years ago. They can knock it all they want, but really, the process functioned pretty much as expected.

Like a lock on your front door, the purpose is not to prevent unwanted people from ever getting inside (no lock will ever accomplish that), but to both make it take long enough the likelihood of being noticed is high, and to put enough hurdles in place that the attacker looks for a more lucrative target.

This is done through time, capability, and money. It takes time to jump through the steps. This presents risk to an attacker as it leaves them exposed for much longer, and susceptible to being tracked down in various ways as they expose themselves. It takes capability to jump through the steps, requiring the attacker having compromised the target in multiple different ways (phone system, employee, etc). This increases the complexity of the attach and thus the risk to the attacker. It takes money. This helps the providing company recoup the cost of verification (and if it's anything like web SSL certs is also about insurance), but money also provides another path to racking down an attacker, and provides a cost to them that isn't just their time. It also makes it less feasible to attempt a bunch of these attacks at once, as it's expensive.

People can complain about the inconvenience all they want, but the inconvenience is part of the point, so I doubt you'll see it change all that much.

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#16
I work for a company that develops audio software. The market itself isn’t that huge so our products triggered even on Windows 7. Once we got the first reports, we’ve bought a code sign certificate.

But still... if your software isn’t common... you’ll trigger the SmartScreen.

Even if your app managed to pass SametScreen, you’ll soon discover that many users got Anti-Viruses that with the same assumption about non-common app is bad.

I’ve ended up contacting a lot of Anti-Virus companies and I whitelist our installers also on their end.

While the process itself is much simpler than notarizing with Apple. On Windows you need to contact much more parties to make your app “just work” for the non-tech-savvy user.

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#17
I agree in general with what SmartScreen tries to do. There are a lot of non-technical folks clicking on stuff willy-nilly so adding barriers to prevent spyware / virus infections for totally unknown binaries is a good thing. A "Let's Encrypt" for code signing may be a good idea, but the cost of a certificate is itself a barrier for spyware distributors, so i'm conflicted on that... not sure what the right fix is.

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#18
post #6

This is clearly a warning, among others, that the bad Microsoft is back. Using certificates and app signing is OK as long as it is done properly, with as much clarity as possible, and an inexpensive way to get our apps signed.

Back, how? I don't disagree with the gist of this article, but that SmartScreen window has looked like that for many, many years. It's not new, nothing is back. Microsoft was never fantastic. The only thing that's new about this article is the bit about WinGet, which is so beta that it's hard to assume that its "SmartScreen means malware" behavior will remain like that. I do agree with it btw, it's just like how Gmai…

The interesting thing from Microsoft's point of view is if they make it increasingly difficult to install applications then Windows will have little value beyond offering a web browser.

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#19

I am guessing that they'd want you do distribute your program through their "App Store" as a UWP, which is likely subject to sandboxing and will never show the SmartScreen prompts. Making raw Win32 .exe distribution as user-unfriendly as possible is very likely to be a goal of MS.

Not the case at all. It's about the fact that they build reputation off installation data from all Windows users, and the catch-22 that can create for new developers just starting out with their first app.

Re: Microsoft Defender SmartScreen is hurting independent developers

#20

Interesting that they aren't doing it the same way as Apple, where you pay to be part of the program and they provide all the certificates. Certainly seems cheaper at $100/yr compared to the prices of these certs. Also why are these certs so much more expensive compared to a normal SSL certificate?

It's because the companies or developers buying them can afford them, because they're usually selling software.
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