Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Messy Analytics Breakup

digitalinklingsblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 25 posts

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#11

Post by XCSme »

zomglings wrote: post #10
XCSme wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Yes, it's a self-hosted platform, so you pay a one-time fee and you can download the product. You then have to upload it to a web server (I use a $5/mo DigitalOcean droplet) and use the auto-installer. There is short installation guide here: https://docs.usertrack.net/installation If your already have a server running the LAMP stack you can add userTrack to it instead of getting a new server, as it's pretty e…

Have you considered releasing configurations for the VPS setup on the Cloud marketplaces? I would much rather deploy onto my infrastructure with one click and pay you a few dollars a month than have to set things up myself.

I checked out the DigitalOcean marketplace but it looked like there are only open-source applications there, or it was really confusing how you can publish a premium script there.

That being said, userTrack does provide a cloud-init configuration for one-click install (which works on DigitalOcean for example). So currently, if the VPS provider supports images and cloud-init, you just have to select a LAMP image, paste the userTrack cloud-init and the VPS will spin-up with a functional userTrack dashboard running on it.

I have also considered sharing it as a Docker container, but that makes it slower to install (have to share the full image) and there is again no easy way to share premium Docker images, as you have to host your own Docker repository.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#12

Post by kohtatsu »

XCSme wrote: post #2

Great article! Your dashboard is not ugly, it's special :) I also broke up from Google Analytics, but I didn't sacrifice the insights, I even gained more. I created a self-hosted analytics[0] platform to replace Google Analytics which is not as complex, but powerful enough to give you all the data the you need. I also had the fear of missing out if I removed GA, but I realized that I only use a small subset of the da…

https://dashboard.usertrack.net/sites/usertrack.net/visitors...

Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people. It's also creepy, this kind of stuff needs to be opt-in. You could record first and only send to the server after they've granted permission with a clear dialog like "can we send your mouse movements and page interaction to the webmaster?"

No idea on how that plays into GDPR, but you'll want to take that into account with something like this.

Overall it's better than Google having all that data, and congrats on building something cool, I like it minus the minutiae that you capture.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#13

Post by XCSme »

kohtatsu wrote: post #12
XCSme wrote: post #2

Great article! Your dashboard is not ugly, it's special :) I also broke up from Google Analytics, but I didn't sacrifice the insights, I even gained more. I created a self-hosted analytics[0] platform to replace Google Analytics which is not as complex, but powerful enough to give you all the data the you need. I also had the fear of missing out if I removed GA, but I realized that I only use a small subset of the da…

https://dashboard.usertrack.net/sites/usertrack.net/visitors... Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people. It's also creepy, this kind of stuff needs to be opt-in. You could record first and only send to the server after they've granted permission with a clear dialog like "can we send your mouse movements and page interaction to the webmaster?" No idea on how that plays into GDP…

Thanks for the suggestions!

There is an option to display a consent window before tracking. Currently I have it disabled on my site, as it's more for demo purposes.

I do agree that it feels a bit creepy to see a recording of yourself, but for static landing pages (where no private data is shared) it poses no privacy risks. I do plan to working on improving the privacy of the platform itself, by allowing better granularity of the things that are tracked (eg. you don't care about recordings? you can disable them).

Currently all the tracking is done cookie-less, there is some more info about privacy here: https://docs.usertrack.net/personal-data-information

> Overall it's better than Google having all that data, and congrats on building something cool, I like it minus the minutiae that you capture.

With userTrack I don't try to replace Google Analytics with a self-hosted platform that is only more "creepy", but also offer a self-hosted alternative to services like Hotjar and FullStory. The difference is that those services not only have the data across multiple domains, but also store the entire HTML content and all changes on the page, meaning that if you have a Chrome Extension that adds some private content to a page (eg. you have a snippet extension that loads reply templates and displays them on the page), this content will also be stored and sent to their servers. userTrack only stores the URL of the page and all actions done (clicks, movements, scroll, window resize, optional text input), meaning that it doesn't actually track your private information if it is added to a login-protected page (eg. your private user dashboard).

Overall I think this can lead to a huge privacy boost for both users and webmasters, while still empowering webmasters with data: * No single authority has the browsing data of a user across domains * No more 3rd party cookies and requests, you can host everything on the same domain as your site * You decide how intrusive you want the tracking to be, not the platform.

I still have work to do when it comes to privacy, but I do see this as being the future for responsible webmasters.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#14

Post by XCSme »

kohtatsu wrote: post #12
XCSme wrote: post #2

Great article! Your dashboard is not ugly, it's special :) I also broke up from Google Analytics, but I didn't sacrifice the insights, I even gained more. I created a self-hosted analytics[0] platform to replace Google Analytics which is not as complex, but powerful enough to give you all the data the you need. I also had the fear of missing out if I removed GA, but I realized that I only use a small subset of the da…

https://dashboard.usertrack.net/sites/usertrack.net/visitors... Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people. It's also creepy, this kind of stuff needs to be opt-in. You could record first and only send to the server after they've granted permission with a clear dialog like "can we send your mouse movements and page interaction to the webmaster?" No idea on how that plays into GDP…

> Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people.

I never thought of this, I do see the potential fingerprinting but I don't think it actually works as currently the mouse position and scroll is tracked only ~200ms, so you just get some random positions, not enough to generate an accurate fingerprint. Plus it would require a lot of data and ML, which I highly doubt would be worth the effort.

> This kind of stuff needs to be opt-in As I mentioned in the other comment, you can display an opt-in dialog if you want to. Some related info: I don't know if you heard of Hotjar before (probably you did, as their ads are everywhere), but it was on like 25% of alexa top 100 sites and on over 500k sites, and probably all of them just bundle the consent with the other cookies or don't show any information at all. I think the problem is that GDPR mostly referrs to tracking and personal identifiable data, and all those movements, heatmaps and actions are not really enough to identify a person.

My current opinion about this: Although I agree it feels creepy, as I user I don't really care if my actions are tracked on the website I go on, if there's no connection made to my person or to other websites I visited. Also, tracking mouse movement feels more creepy, but tracking all the content that you see and buttons/links that you click on in order to show targeted ads is probably worse. I think the big difference is that once you go to site X, you expect the site to get some information about your usage on their site (what pages you visit, what information was useful for you, where you got stuck on the page) in order to improve your experience and for them to improve conversions, but you don't expect for another 3rd party to get all this info about you and use it for other purposes such as advertising or selling of personal information

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#15

Post by kohtatsu »

XCSme wrote: post #14
kohtatsu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dashboard.usertrack.net/sites/usertrack.net/visitors... Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people. It's also creepy, this kind of stuff needs to be opt-in. You could record first and only send to the server after they've granted permission with a clear dialog like "can we send your mouse movements and page interaction to the webmaster?" No idea on how that plays into GDP…

> Collecting scroll and mouse movements is enough to build a fingerprint on people. I never thought of this, I do see the potential fingerprinting but I don't think it actually works as currently the mouse position and scroll is tracked only ~200ms, so you just get some random positions, not enough to generate an accurate fingerprint. Plus it would require a lot of data and ML, which I highly doubt would be worth the…

I'm happy to see you're putting this much thought into it, I appreciate it a lot.

I think it is a dozen orders of magnitude better than 3rd party services considering it's self hosted, which mostly nullifies fingerprinting concerns. I firmly believe opt-in should be required for the scrolling and movements, but I understand the climate isn't there yet.

Thanks for taking time to consider privacy, making it a priority, and taking the time to respond here. I reckon you're well on the good side of the fight for privacy just by decentralizing this data.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#16

Post by njhaveri »

Been using Netlify's (server-log-based) analytics offering with my site. It feels maybe a little expensive for what it is, and definitely doesn't have many bells/whistles, but it's been a good-enough alternative.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#17

Post by johannes1813 »

Does anyone know what is wrong with HN timestamps? I saw that there was a lot of traffic to that article in the last few hours (using my own analytics service of course), and the article is back on the HN homepage with a timestamp that says 4 hours ago, but I posted it yesterday. Comments from below also have incorrect timestamps.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#18

Post by Tomte »

johannes1813 wrote: post #17

Does anyone know what is wrong with HN timestamps? I saw that there was a lot of traffic to that article in the last few hours (using my own analytics service of course), and the article is back on the HN homepage with a timestamp that says 4 hours ago, but I posted it yesterday. Comments from below also have incorrect timestamps.

Submissions the mods find interesting, but that aren't making it to the front page, sometimes get a second chance.

They get posted in /new (or even at the bottom of the front page) again, with modified timestamp.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#19

Post by tarun_anand »

Thanks for writing this. Appreciate the insights. We have taken the same stance when building our privacy preserving analytics and engagement tool- appICE.

Do keep posting and we would be happy to share your story with our customers.

Re: My Messy Analytics Breakup

#20

Post by buro9 »

Recently I've been thinking there must be a better way.

I want rich insights from a session angle, but I mostly want to know performance timings and what my end users experience. How can I improve my web apps to increase engagement, and where are the issues on my website as it's seen from a user's perspective.

My current thought (not yet implemented) is to take several existing things and to glue them together.

1. Boomerang https://github.com/akamai/boomerang is a Real User Monitoring JS include that is open source and comes from the Yahoo and Akamai performance teams

2. Grafana Cloud https://grafana.com/products/cloud/ has Loki and Prometheus for log consumption and metrics respectively and now has a self serve plan of $50 per month (but I think this is reasonable as the data storage is managed for you and you could run many instances of RUM monitoring via this to spread the cost reasonably)

3. Write a simple server to receive the Boomerang requests, log each request received in full detail and structured. At the same time increment Prometheus metrics. Let Loki and Prometheus then put that into Grafana Cloud.

Then it's just a case of using Grafana to configure a dashboard to offer whatever views, alerts, analysis that you want.

The thing I like about this is that no matter what the website the inputs are the same (whatever Boomerang provides), and so the dashboards are inherently shareable so that others can use them.

Post reply on HN