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Fashion industry suffers

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Re: Fashion industry suffers

#11

Post by luckylion »

unmole wrote: post #10
luckylion wrote: post #3

Fashion is one of the greatest symbols of unnecessary luxury, next to tourism. It being "hit" is not a surprise, but also really not worrisome. Individually, it's an issue for everyone working in fashion, but if the fashion industry went away and never returned, society wouldn't suffer.

One of my favourite passages from Sapiens: Even what people take to be their most personal desires are usually programmed by the imagined order. Let’s consider, for example, the popular desire to take a holiday abroad. There is nothing natural or obvious about this. A chimpanzee alpha male would never think of using his power in order to go on holiday into the territory of a neighbouring chimpanzee band. The elite of…

Thank you, that really resonated with me (and made me move Sapiens up a bit on my reading list).

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#12

Post by chintler »

luckylion wrote: post #7
SirHound wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on Earth is tourism unnecessary? Maybe if you want people to be even more ignorant, sure.

Tourism is not education as evident by the fact that global tourism is at an all time high, yet people are extremely ignorant. Teaching them to read again will be more fruitful than flying them around the globe if less ignorance is the goal.

I have a few counterpoints against your first sentence:

0. Tourism isn't a cure for ignorance, but it helps in widening worldview and experiencing how other people live and see. However, today it is mostly about having some time away from your residence/work.

1. Tourists are a small though non-negligible part of humanity as a whole

2. A large part of the people who have traveled as tourists have traveled to tourist spots, places that are developed to cater to the _tourists_ and hence aren't an authentic representation of the local population.

I do agree with your second sentence.

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#13

Post by higeorge13 »

luckylion wrote: post #7
SirHound wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on Earth is tourism unnecessary? Maybe if you want people to be even more ignorant, sure.

Tourism is not education as evident by the fact that global tourism is at an all time high, yet people are extremely ignorant. Teaching them to read again will be more fruitful than flying them around the globe if less ignorance is the goal.

Tourism can be educational, it's just destroyed by the modern life behavior e.g. social media addiction. Most people now compete on who has done the most trips in their lives, enjoyed the best cocktail in an exotic beach and posted the most perfect photo from the most iconic touristic destination. But you still can visit destinations to learn their history and blend with locals which no book can teach you.

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#14

Post by BLKNSLVR »

SirHound wrote: post #6
luckylion wrote: post #3

Fashion is one of the greatest symbols of unnecessary luxury, next to tourism. It being "hit" is not a surprise, but also really not worrisome. Individually, it's an issue for everyone working in fashion, but if the fashion industry went away and never returned, society wouldn't suffer.

How on Earth is tourism unnecessary? Maybe if you want people to be even more ignorant, sure.

It strongly depends on your definition of necessary, and your linking of tourism to the reduction of ignorance.

No individual died from lack of tourism. One neither eats nor breathes tourism.

Yes, it was a large part of the world economy, so it is, or was, necessary to the status quo, and the status quo maintains many a lifestyle rich and poor, so it's specifically necessary to maintain the direction of the world as it was in late 2019.

But necessary like food, water, shelter, and healthcare? No, tourism is not necessary. Tourism is inaccessible to a percentage of the world populace, therefore it's not necessary.

Will governments define "necessary" after this? What mesh of dependence upon keeping their citizens alive will be determined? Will it even be considered in the rush to re-open?

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#15

Post by dazc »

SirHound wrote: post #6
luckylion wrote: post #3

Fashion is one of the greatest symbols of unnecessary luxury, next to tourism. It being "hit" is not a surprise, but also really not worrisome. Individually, it's an issue for everyone working in fashion, but if the fashion industry went away and never returned, society wouldn't suffer.

How on Earth is tourism unnecessary? Maybe if you want people to be even more ignorant, sure.

I've been to DisneyWorld but I don't think that gives me much insight into the lives of ordinary Americans?

I've also lived in Spain and am constantly surprised how ignorant most people are about the country despite having been to far more 'tourist' hot-spots than I have?

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#16

Post by _0ffh »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

Maybe it's time to hit the brakes on selling overpriced sweatshop made clothes with a luxury brand slapped on top and a 2000x markup.

How? It's the same problem as with spam: As long as there remain enough... erm... special people who pay these scammers, the business will be profitable.

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#17

Post by mns »

luckylion wrote: post #3

Fashion is one of the greatest symbols of unnecessary luxury, next to tourism. It being "hit" is not a surprise, but also really not worrisome. Individually, it's an issue for everyone working in fashion, but if the fashion industry went away and never returned, society wouldn't suffer.

Wow, what's going on lately with hackernews. I see these extreme opinions on everything, it's like we're trying to take out the entire fun and diversity from life so that we can all live forever in our apartments, work from there, order food from there and in the end die in our home having done nothing with our lives but work.

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#18

Post by searchableguy »

mns wrote: post #17
luckylion wrote: post #3

Fashion is one of the greatest symbols of unnecessary luxury, next to tourism. It being "hit" is not a surprise, but also really not worrisome. Individually, it's an issue for everyone working in fashion, but if the fashion industry went away and never returned, society wouldn't suffer.

Wow, what's going on lately with hackernews. I see these extreme opinions on everything, it's like we're trying to take out the entire fun and diversity from life so that we can all live forever in our apartments, work from there, order food from there and in the end die in our home having done nothing with our lives but work.

I don't think parent or people are against fashion. What they are against is probably brands violating many labour laws in other countries to sell you a non functional piece of "fashionable" cloth at a 10x-100x mark up price stuff.

Fashion can exist without harming the environment or society even if that society is not yours, there are still people suffering in third world. The argument that without these companies, they won't even have a job is plain bad because they have enough margins to justify paying more and investing in safety but they choose not to and consumers support that by purchasing it.

There is also difference between buying cheap produced out of slave labour vs buying expensive produced out of cheap labor. In former, you might not have enough money to be moralistic but in latter, you have a choice to and you didn't which imo makes you more responsible.

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#19

Post by awongh »

econcon wrote: post #4

Has anyone ever seen the luxury fashion items and where they come from? You find Chinese cramped up in small home shops, churning out the produce like bags with violation of all safety codes and they simply bribe the police in Italy. Then luxuries Italian brands stamp their logo on top of it and it's ready to be sold in big city showrooms. Heck, a lot of Italian shoe brands are buying their leather shoes from Uttar P…

maybe it's not completely clear from your comment, but those chinese workers are actually living and manufacturing the bags in italy: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-wo...

which has a very strange globalization / branding backwards logic to it. - chinese production costs low / high margins on branded good originating in italy, ok, we do chinese manufacturing but inside italy....

Re: Fashion industry suffers

#20

Post by jsinai »

searchableguy wrote: post #18
mns wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, what's going on lately with hackernews. I see these extreme opinions on everything, it's like we're trying to take out the entire fun and diversity from life so that we can all live forever in our apartments, work from there, order food from there and in the end die in our home having done nothing with our lives but work.

I don't think parent or people are against fashion. What they are against is probably brands violating many labour laws in other countries to sell you a non functional piece of "fashionable" cloth at a 10x-100x mark up price stuff. Fashion can exist without harming the environment or society even if that society is not yours, there are still people suffering in third world. The argument that without these companies,…

One of the big issues is transparency, and this applies across the entire price spectrum. If people knew that certain brands, luxury or not, were exploiting labour, would some people still be inclined to buy them? It’s easy to say that most people wouldn’t care, but the conversations shift. Look at School Strike for Climate Action as an example.
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