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$14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

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Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#11

Post by arcticbull »

dudus wrote: post #6
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

You definitely don't need to trust these players most of the time. Your coins can sit in an offline wallet out of their reach for the majority of the time. What you use them for is liquidity. Since you probably won't find a private party to buy/sell from. Realistically if you want to buy, or sell coins you have to go through one of them. And yes that kinda sucks because none of them are trustworthy., so you have some…

> You definitely don't need to trust these players most of the time. Your coins can sit in an offline wallet out of their reach for the majority of the time.

In a sweet bird-bath somewhere, no doubt.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#12

Post by fastball »

wayoutthere wrote: post #5
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

I think you've hit on the core reason cryptocurrencies aren't going to take off as currencies. They've taken the governance aspect previously enacted by the federal reserve and enforced through the banks and replaced it with a shadowy cabal of exchange owners. Ultimately I think it's a people problem that can't be solved through technology. But cryptocurrency does happen to be quite useful for money laundering...

Decentralized exchanges exist for the more sophisticated cryptos (e.g. Ethereum).

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#13

Post by r00fus »

wayoutthere wrote: post #5
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

I think you've hit on the core reason cryptocurrencies aren't going to take off as currencies. They've taken the governance aspect previously enacted by the federal reserve and enforced through the banks and replaced it with a shadowy cabal of exchange owners. Ultimately I think it's a people problem that can't be solved through technology. But cryptocurrency does happen to be quite useful for money laundering...

If the main purpose is money laundering, then perhaps cryptocurrency is good enough for those players? Maybe shady cabals are easier to deal with than governments, downsides included.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#14

Post by caterama »

rb808 wrote: post #3
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

Are there any authorities that help track down stuff like this now? If you can pay taxes on it you'd think the police would help investigate a theft.

On one hand, the authorities are mocked for incompetency (see recently: surveillance cameras on the open internet, 26-year-old EMT shot by police raiding the wrong home) and yet we expect them to handle cases like this? This seems like a double standard. Is there a solution?

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#15

Post by JoeAltmaier »

save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

Isn't this anathema to the whole blockchain-currency credo? It's all about no authority. Its all on you to keep your bitcoin secure. For better or worse.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#16

Post by [deleted] »

r00fus wrote: post #13
wayoutthere wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've hit on the core reason cryptocurrencies aren't going to take off as currencies. They've taken the governance aspect previously enacted by the federal reserve and enforced through the banks and replaced it with a shadowy cabal of exchange owners. Ultimately I think it's a people problem that can't be solved through technology. But cryptocurrency does happen to be quite useful for money laundering...

If the main purpose is money laundering, then perhaps cryptocurrency is good enough for those players? Maybe shady cabals are easier to deal with than governments, downsides included.

[deleted]

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#17

Post by save_ferris »

arcticbull wrote: post #9
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

Not your keys, not your coins™ -- with that as the core philosophy of cryptocurrency, can you even say this was stolen, let alone laundered? It sounds like the person with the keys transferred the coins into another wallet. Resolved: behaves correctly. At least, as intended anyways.

That makes sense. I guess that seems to somewhat conflict with the concept of the exchange as a service, at least for how laypeople understand currency exchanges in general. It wouldn’t surprise me if most people with exchange accounts don’t understand that coins not in their own wallet aren’t actually theirs. The exchanges don’t really make that clear to their users either, at least the ones I’ve used.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#18

Post by cortesoft »

nfin wrote: post #10
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

it is like saying in the 90s: we don't need open protocols like pop3/imap, because AOL is centralized anyway (fast forward today: yes, most people still use centralized gmail/outlook.com, but I still have a) the choice to host my mails and b) lower cost to build a service that compete with the big ones, as I don't need to part of the big-players to plug-in to the open "email-system") In "crypto" centralized" companie…

Although that 'open email system' isn't as open in practice, since most of the big providers aren't going to accept your email if you set up your own sender.

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#19

Post by vinniejames »

rb808 wrote: post #3
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

Are there any authorities that help track down stuff like this now? If you can pay taxes on it you'd think the police would help investigate a theft.

The authorities don't want it to succeed. They want a bunch of "I told you so's" to justify shutting it down

Re: $14M in ETH stolen from Upbit were laundered in May through well-known exchanges

#20

Post by cortesoft »

arcticbull wrote: post #9
save_ferris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting piece, and it highlights one problem I’ve noticed with crypto in general recently, which is that these kinds of investigations are largely being carried out by private entities who build platforms around this type of forensics without any real ability to go after the exchanges that have permitted this laundering. Between this and Bitfinex refusing to submit to an external auditor and other even…

Not your keys, not your coins™ -- with that as the core philosophy of cryptocurrency, can you even say this was stolen, let alone laundered? It sounds like the person with the keys transferred the coins into another wallet. Resolved: behaves correctly. At least, as intended anyways.

I don't think there is anything fundamental about cryptocurrency that would make them entirely immune to theft.

You can both believe that the blockchain is working as intended and that the coins were stolen.

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