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The Machine Pauses

hedgehogreview.com

11–20 of 34 posts

Re: The Machine Pauses

#11
I can't help but think of the author as spoiled and out of touch while worshipping a utopia that never was and forgetting both the brutality of the past and the fringes of today who lack much of the benefits.

"What has efficency done for us?" is a real straight line, a question that is a set up for a gag the length of an essay that makes "Who is John Galt" look terse.

Forget the aquaducts of the romans. Aside from allowing specialization to give increased benefits like advanced medicine, education, a rising standard of living for a growing population with a small minority engaged in agriculture, and reducded environmental impact what has efficency done for us?

Re: The Machine Pauses

#12
This mirrors Adam Smith’s later opinions on division of labor

After getting all excited about it early on in Wealth if Nations, he later changed his tune in the book.

Later he went on about it being a monstrous thing that would make people as stupid as they can be

It’s a Brave New World out there

I am not a Luddite. Nor do I believe a minority of the human population who can afford these things are owed them at great expense to the planet all humans have to live on

It’s authoritarian to force a future mess on others. That they’d have to chose to clean up & stabilize instead of explore

But the west of course is a bunch of nihilists at heart. Too busy ogling the machine itself to be distracted from the idea their impact could possibly be harmful to ourselves or the species

https://youtu.be/y_7V7tEj2Lo

Re: The Machine Pauses

#13

I can't help but think of the author as spoiled and out of touch while worshipping a utopia that never was and forgetting both the brutality of the past and the fringes of today who lack much of the benefits. "What has efficency done for us?" is a real straight line, a question that is a set up for a gag the length of an essay that makes "Who is John Galt" look terse. Forget the aquaducts of the romans. Aside from al…

He’s talking specifically about disposable consumer tech, cranking out machinery that sits and rots when reality throws a pandemic at us. Chasing new literal machines for the sake of chasing new literal machines

It’s the difference between focusing on biology of a tree and not ecology of a forest

Not systems efficiency in general, specific efficiencies we’re chasing by describing how much time we put into them relative to other time and resource efficiencies we can look for

There’s no efficiency to be found in launching a new phone every couple years? In any context?

Maybe your take is what’s “terse”?

Re: The Machine Pauses

#14
One of the central themes is that all content is mediated - no one reads the original work but rather commentary on commentary.

In the spirit of this I would encourage you to read the original 1909 E.M. Forster piece first before reading this piece of commentary or the replies in this thread: https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machi...

Re: The Machine Pauses

#15
post #3

It's a pattern as old as the technology and civilization dependent on it: 1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said…

Is the lord here just a dick? Why would he do that?

I highly recommend watching Jordan Peterson's lectures on youtube called "Biblical Series". They (attempt to) explain this and similar questions from Christianity to people who are typically smart and approach the world intellectually, who will usually have trouble with these concepts and the meaning of the stories.

Regardless of "belief" in Christinity, it is clear to me at least that any such simplistic interpretation as "god was just a dick", is at the very least, missing the point of the stories. There is a much more deep and logical meaning in many of those stories, which becomes very obvious when you get presented to it, and that's before you even start tapping into the spiritual/existential/metaphysical content of the stories. It makes much more sense even as simple life wisdom.

To present an overly simplified answer, I will say that typically (and this is a typical occurrence in the stories, where god does something painful or creates an obstruction), when something like that happens, the phrase "god did it", does not refer so much to the fact that christinaity tries to make up this god character and give him some lines to make him look a certain way, in order to tell some message.

Instead, "god did it this way" refers to god being everything, the universe, including the human societies: god is not something above human world as a guy in the sky (in fact bible never presents that image, it's more something from monty python), god is the personfification of the world and everything that happens in it.

And what happens in it is that sometimes people feel pain, do stupid things, sometimes tragical (appearing so) events happen. That's just the fact of life. Christianity does not triumphantly claim that "god did it" as any form of justification, it simply describes that since those thing do obviously happen, that means the universe, the world, the society - the god (all those things combined) make those things happen. And then the rest of the story is presented in such a way as to understand how humans can act in relationship to those underelying realities. How they can respond to and understand what is happening in the world.

Re: The Machine Pauses

#16
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do monsoons knock down trees? God shouldn't be thought of like a very powerful human.

Monsoons knock down the trees because they have no choice. Lacking any intelligence, they have to follow warm air and pressure differentials. Is this how you see your god?

Understanding god is hard unless you use your emotional intelligence instead of logical intelligence, because that's what the concept of god is used for. To guide humans in their emotional life, not in their logical pursuits.

In your example, if that happened to you (monsoon knocked down trees, your houses and a couple of your children) - then you would for sure have an emotional reaction, and those emotional reactions would absolutely not see monsoons as "pressure differentials with no choice". (Well unless you block all your emotions, which many people do of course.).

You would need to figure out an emotional reaction to that situation. That might be anger/grief unto the monsoon (as an extension of god), or if you processed it and grew spiritually from it, you might see it as god (through monsoons) trying to teach you something, and then everything there in between. However, you would still not in any of those cases see monsoon as pressure differentials. At the very least your emotional intelligence wouldn't. (Then there is a question of whether you listen to it or try to block everything and live like a robot, which some people opt to do, but that only works for a while.)

But until life makes you actually interact with those situations, then it's easy to ignore the emotional reality and see the world (or any part of it like a monsoon) as dead mechanical force with no consciousness.

Re: The Machine Pauses

#17
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do monsoons knock down trees? God shouldn't be thought of like a very powerful human.

Monsoons knock down the trees because they have no choice. Lacking any intelligence, they have to follow warm air and pressure differentials. Is this how you see your god?

They don't follow warm air and pressure differentials, they are warm air and pressure differentials. A monsoon knocks down trees because a monsoon knocks down trees. Whatever God is, if it is to be God, it must be utterly transcendent and unconditioned on circumstance, unlike any natural phenomena. Treating God like a human being, or really any being or phenomenon can only be a flawed metaphor.

God is nothing. God is not the Supreme Being because God isn't a being. To exist is to be conditioned, so God does not exist. These aren't wild, heterodox statements except to our current modern strains of fundamentalist religious thought which try to pin down God as a phenomenon we can observe and study. They are statements that have been made by theologians of all sorts of traditions including the Abrahamic ones throughout history.

Re: The Machine Pauses

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the lord here just a dick? Why would he do that?

I highly recommend watching Jordan Peterson's lectures on youtube called "Biblical Series". They (attempt to) explain this and similar questions from Christianity to people who are typically smart and approach the world intellectually, who will usually have trouble with these concepts and the meaning of the stories. Regardless of "belief" in Christinity, it is clear to me at least that any such simplistic interpretat…

Than you really have to stretch the principle of charity beyond what it reasonable. Just read the first of the ten commandments and there is a very jealous undertone about other gods.

"I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me."

From this statement it is very clear to me who God is and that is not the Universe, society nor the father of time.

Re: The Machine Pauses

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the lord here just a dick? Why would he do that?

The point of the story is that the humans should know their place. Aspiring to accomplish great things through cooperation, rather than prayer to god, is presented as hubris. Compare to the older stories of Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods, made mankind less dependent upon the gods, and was thus consigned to eternal torture. Tyrants hate collectivism more than anything.

Reminds me of the implied echo in Greek Mythology. The Titans created the Gods. They tyranized them out of fear and were later near entirety overthrown except for the collaborators or most merciful among them. The Titans shaped man and the Gods breathed life into Man. The Gods tyranized man out of fear of them....

Accidental or not the implications long term are of a cycle of overthrow and self fulfilling prophecy.

Re: The Machine Pauses

#20

Sooner or later this is bound to happen and I think the problem is that are too used to things working smoothly and not considering an interruption. Also, time and time again we seem to find it easier to recover from a crisis than to prevent it. It's really strange...

In the large scale, the current crisis is a joke. Do you want water? Your tap still works. Hungry? Put on a mask, drive to the supermarket, and wow, they still have food...

That makes me sound like a crazy prepper, but if the water shuts off and the supermarkets don't get resupplied I'll probably be dead within a week.

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