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Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

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Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#11

Post by brianwawok »

aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

A lot of people don’t have insurance. You can’t go to a doctor for a $150 appointment without insurance. But you can go to the ER when it gets really bad for a $2000 appointment (which you don’t pay. May go to court against you but if you are poor, they won’t collect)

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#13

Post by jungletime »

Doctors in California went on strike and mortality dropped.

One reason for the drop may be due to elective surgeries not being performed. And since more people at staying at home in a safe environment, due to COVID there will be fewer accidents. And far fewer medical mistakes too, not COVID related.

"The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading...

"Why Do Patients Stop Dying When Doctors Go on Strike?"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/slightly-blighty/201...

My personal take on this based on statistics and observation is that many medical procedures are not very effective.

Or trade short term risk, for long term benefit. Eg. Those that survive a bypass surgery may live longer. But it will shorten the life of those that it kills. Chemo therapy can kill you immediately, but if you survive the procedure, it may have also killed the cancer that then will increase your life expectancy.

I also think many medical procedures are not really changing the course of the disease. And being in a hospital is inherently risky. You are exposing yourself to other very sick people, and possible human errors in treatment.

ITs easy to fool yourself into thinking that what you are doing is having an effect. Consider the thousands of football fans in stadiums thinking they are changing the course of the game with cheering or booing.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#14

Post by aluminussoma »

sushid wrote: post #6
aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

The article addresses this. They expect fewer trauma patients as there are fewer people on the road, etc. but they expect the number of stroke, heart attack, etc. patients to remain constant, which hasn't been the case.

The article doesn't address the opinion that my doctor relative expressed: there were a lot of ER visits, not trauma related, that probably didn't need to happen.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#15

Post by WalterSear »

jungletime wrote: post #13

Doctors in California went on strike and mortality dropped. One reason for the drop may be due to elective surgeries not being performed. And since more people at staying at home in a safe environment, due to COVID there will be fewer accidents. And far fewer medical mistakes too, not COVID related. "The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about" https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medi…

If you have an accident in a hospital they don't send you to the ER department.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#16

Post by exmadscientist »

scarmig wrote: post #10

It'd be interesting if the quarantine from the coronavirus has also quarantined us from the ravages and stresses of day to day life, leading to improved cardiovascular outcomes. I'd be curious about suicide statistics as well--would they be going up or down right now?

Suicides are definitely up, though I haven't been able to find numbers.

This lockdown is very hard on many people's mental health.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#17

Post by dade_ »

Cars kill us: Far fewer car crashes, more sleep as no need to commute so early in the morning, no horrible drive into the office screaming and honking at the idiot driver, no horrible drive home while texting. Alcohol kills us: no drunk fights at bars, drunk driving, falling in front of moving vehicles. Not saying it explains it, but a lot of people get hurt and die for stupid reasons.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#18

Post by Trasmatta »

scarmig wrote: post #10

It'd be interesting if the quarantine from the coronavirus has also quarantined us from the ravages and stresses of day to day life, leading to improved cardiovascular outcomes. I'd be curious about suicide statistics as well--would they be going up or down right now?

Anecdotally, I feel like stress has gone way up for most people, not down. Not sure it's that's true or not on the larger scale, but it definitely seems true for me and most of the people I know.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#19

Post by social_quotient »

sdan wrote: post #8
xenonite wrote: post #4

Of course, people hesitate to go to the doctor. But I see a second factor: Maybe it’s because of a slowing down in many regards. Hence, less stress, and less heart attacks?

Fairly sure the country as a whole is more stressed. Economy and media at least portray that.

But fewer externalities like bars, parties, stupid accidents with friends, rushing to meetings, traffic, physical work env stress, in some cases work altogether. Not to minimize the mental torment some people feel but I think o there is a huge reduction in certain kinds of stress.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#20

Post by bryan11 »

xenonite wrote: post #4

Of course, people hesitate to go to the doctor. But I see a second factor: Maybe it’s because of a slowing down in many regards. Hence, less stress, and less heart attacks?

Were people going to the doctor and ER less before covid? As employers move to offer only high deductible health insurance, the cost to see a doctor is increasing quickly. When a single doctor visit can cost from $150 to $1500 depending on what they talk about and you're paying that entire amount, one tends to put of seeing a doctor unless it's a true emergency.
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