A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec • Hacker News Board

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#11

Post by alain_gilbert » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

jefft255 wrote: post #7

ckdarby wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> first step It starts with this and then could become if you're not apart of the list you're going to have "more problems". What other province is doing this? In my opinion this makes it more complicated already. It always starts with a first step, Bill 101 exists to protect the French culture. Now people actively use it as an exploit against companies. I've known people who use Bill 101 to have documents provided i…

Of all the unintended/bad consequences of bill 101, I’m not sure about this one. Maybe you witnessed something but I’d be surprised if that was a regular thing. Also, depending on the context this could be a very legitimate request; how is anyone supposed to know the intent of someone asking for a translation?

I confirm this is true. Happened to me twice.

First time was a company that had 0 clients in Qc (or Canada if that matters), still received a complaint.

Fortunately, since we didn't care about the FR website, we basically added a link which was pointing to a google translate version of it.

But yeah, this law is definitely used by many as an "exploit against companies" just to make you waste your time.

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#12

Post by mschuster91 » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

It's good to see that finally people are doing something about the utter dominance that Amazon has managed to achieve.

While I do get the benefits of online delivery to customers (especially in the current pandemic situation or for people too old or impaired to walk/drive), the situation is much more dire for their communities across the world:

1) Many towns rely on some sort of commercial tax on local companies to fund their operations. Amazon however only pays taxes where they employ people (i.e. some random small-ish villages near highways), but not where they sell stuff - this means that as more sales shift from physical retail to online, the funding of the town goes down.

2) With delivery of food taking over, small stores that enable local people to buy e.g. groceries without needing a car get unprofitable which means they go six feet under and people are forced to drive to the next town having a Walmart or other kind of large supermarket.

3) The more stores close, the less attractive the mall or the area becomes. "Storefront blight" makes an area less attractive to potential and existing residents, invites vandals (smashed glasses, graffiti, ...) which in the worst case creates a negative self-reinforcing spiral to the bottom. Additionally, the jobs that are lost there may (!) be replaced on a national level by additional hirings in Amazon warehouses or delivery companies, but again, as delivery centers tend to be centralized, this creates another loss for the communities. Depending on the country, this job loss may hit communities further when the community is responsible for unemployment or other social benefits (e.g. housing) and not the state/federal government.

4) The tax loss also hits the countries: Amazon (and other mega corporations such as IKEA) can and do exploit complex tax loopholes to avoid as much corporate tax as they can.

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#13

Post by StreamBright » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:33 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #2

Damn it! I live in Quebec, this province makes everything extremely complicated and then wonders why most companies don't want to deal with them and most people leave. Went to buy insurance, couldn't because ToS lists countries couldn't do business with includes, Sadi, Iran, Iraq and Quebec. Most Canadian's know to live in this province only if you can maximize the gains from it. Buying a first time house, starting a…

I heard great things about the paper-based bank system. :)

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#14

Post by ckdarby » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

jefft255 wrote: post #10

ckdarby wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple different times, different companies, different people and knowing the intent because they either told me point blank or I asked.

Yes I understand that you know the intent; but are you suggesting that we shouldn't mandate businesses to hand out some documents in French because a few people you know are assholes? Do you realize that there is a reason that this law exists and that people could legitimately want to ask for documents in French?

> Do you realize that there is a reason that this law exists and that people could legitimately want to ask for documents in French?

I don't see where my comment is saying that individuals shouldn't be provided the documents in French.

I'm only discussing what I observed and further providing context when it was suggested it doesn't happen often and it could be legitimate.

Equally it might not be legitimate.

It is actually fairly common reply I get when I mention it can be abused.

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#15

Post by aga98mtl » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #2

Damn it! I live in Quebec, this province makes everything extremely complicated and then wonders why most companies don't want to deal with them and most people leave. Went to buy insurance, couldn't because ToS lists countries couldn't do business with includes, Sadi, Iran, Iraq and Quebec. Most Canadian's know to live in this province only if you can maximize the gains from it. Buying a first time house, starting a…

What type of insurance can't you get in Quebec? Insurance is usually cheaper in Quebec compared to its peers (Ontario & BC).

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#16

Post by TulliusCicero » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:51 PM UTC

This seems kind of doomed to fail. Amazon is appealing because it provides a good customer experience: good prices, fast shipping, wide variety of products, responsive customer service, etc. More local businesses fail to compete because they mostly offer the same things with worse prices and experience.

It's one thing to appeal to people's sense of civic responsibility for the environment, another thing entirely for commerce. Most people just wanna get their stuff easily and at a low price.

Now, there are some weaknesses Amazon has, like having to sift through a lot of cheap crap or copycat items while searching/browsing, as well as fake reviews. Maybe a website that offered most of Amazon's strengths while tackling its real flaws could be successful, but this doesn't look like that. It just looks like a half-hearted feel good measure to make it look like they're doing something.

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#17

Post by kapuasuite » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #12

It's good to see that finally people are doing something about the utter dominance that Amazon has managed to achieve. While I do get the benefits of online delivery to customers (especially in the current pandemic situation or for people too old or impaired to walk/drive), the situation is much more dire for their communities across the world: 1) Many towns rely on some sort of commercial tax on local companies to f…

Now compare the cost of what you mentioned in monetary terms to the cost savings for consumers (which is essentially everyone) - which is larger?

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#18

Post by jefft255 » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #14

jefft255 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I understand that you know the intent; but are you suggesting that we shouldn't mandate businesses to hand out some documents in French because a few people you know are assholes? Do you realize that there is a reason that this law exists and that people could legitimately want to ask for documents in French?

> Do you realize that there is a reason that this law exists and that people could legitimately want to ask for documents in French? I don't see where my comment is saying that individuals shouldn't be provided the documents in French. I'm only discussing what I observed and further providing context when it was suggested it doesn't happen often and it could be legitimate. Equally it might not be legitimate. It is ac…

Ok then I misread what you were trying to say. I wish Bill 101 wasn't abused (like the Italian restaurant scandal thing). Sadly, as with most laws, people will always find a way to twist it...

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#19

Post by mschuster91 » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

kapuasuite wrote: post #17

mschuster91 wrote: post #12

It's good to see that finally people are doing something about the utter dominance that Amazon has managed to achieve. While I do get the benefits of online delivery to customers (especially in the current pandemic situation or for people too old or impaired to walk/drive), the situation is much more dire for their communities across the world: 1) Many towns rely on some sort of commercial tax on local companies to f…

Now compare the cost of what you mentioned in monetary terms to the cost savings for consumers (which is essentially everyone) - which is larger?

The problem: the cost of "loss of life quality" thanks to increasing store blight cannot be reasonably quantified. You only notice it when it gets obvious, and then it is mostly too late to do anything.

Re: A fight against Amazon becomes a state matter in Quebec

#20

Post by belval » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

jefft255 wrote: post #18

ckdarby wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you realize that there is a reason that this law exists and that people could legitimately want to ask for documents in French? I don't see where my comment is saying that individuals shouldn't be provided the documents in French. I'm only discussing what I observed and further providing context when it was suggested it doesn't happen often and it could be legitimate. Equally it might not be legitimate. It is ac…

Ok then I misread what you were trying to say. I wish Bill 101 wasn't abused (like the Italian restaurant scandal thing). Sadly, as with most laws, people will always find a way to twist it...

It really is not the bad, most of the time when there is actual abuse there is a social outrage and they back off.

Bill 101 was created to protect the only French-speaking group in America. It's by definition a lesser evil to protect French from declining and it is visibly not enough since the percentage of French speaker across the province is going down.