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The Amish health care system

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Re: The Amish health care system

#11

Post by bluejekyll »

jimmaswell wrote: post #8
_fq4v wrote: post #2

I thought the most interesting part was the commentary on non-Amish care in the past > I asked my literal grandmother, a 95 year old former nurse, how health care worked in her day. She said it just wasn’t a problem. Hospitals were supported by wealthy philanthropists and religious organizations. Poor people got treated for free. Middle class people paid as much as they could afford, which was often the whole bill, b…

How do you come away with an inequality issue from a setup where everyone got treated at a fair price and the rich subsidized others?

I believe the inequality is that the more wealthy purchase better care, or conditions, at the hospital. Therefor not everyone gets the same care.

I’m not sure how that’s different from today, other than the exorbitant costs that exist today.

Re: The Amish health care system

#12

Post by bluejekyll »

“ The Amish have had a life expectancy in the low 70s since colonial times, when the rest of us were dying at 40 or 50. Since then, Amish life expectancy has stayed the same, and English life expectancy has improved to the high 70s.”

Re: The Amish health care system

#13

Post by markdown »

refurb wrote: post #9
_fq4v wrote: post #2

I thought the most interesting part was the commentary on non-Amish care in the past > I asked my literal grandmother, a 95 year old former nurse, how health care worked in her day. She said it just wasn’t a problem. Hospitals were supported by wealthy philanthropists and religious organizations. Poor people got treated for free. Middle class people paid as much as they could afford, which was often the whole bill, b…

That's what some universal systems already do. I was reading up on Singapore. There is a baseline of insurance for hospital stays, but it's in a ward with 6 other patients in the same room. If you want something better (and there are tiers), you pay more. You can buy insurance policies that pay for the more comfortable stay.

The same in Fiji.

We have universal health care, but anyone is of course free to forego that and pay (or use their private insurance) for a private room rather than a ward, or just go to a private hospital instead.

I don't understand the debate about this in the US. It's as if the rich assume that things will change for the worse for them if universal health care is enacted.

Re: The Amish health care system

#14

Post by daenz »

>How do the Amish keep costs so low? R&D (plus a few other sources) identify some key strategies.

>...the Amish are honorable customers. This separates them from insurance companies, who are constantly trying to scam providers however they can. Much of the increase in health care costs is “administrative expenses”, and much of these administrative expenses is hiring an army of lawyers, clerks, and billing professionals to thwart insurance companies’ attempts to cheat their way out of paying. If you are an honorable Amish person and the hospital knows you will pay your bill on time with zero fuss, they can waive all this.

Imagine how many social problems would disappear if people had more integrity and stronger morals. Literally every aspect of life would improve. But instead, we have to bulletproof everything (largely without success) from people who scheme and scam their way through life. We sink enormous costs into this, and it slows the progress and complicates life for everyone else.

I'm not a religious person, but the thing that the anti-religion movements have failed spectacularly at is providing a universal, teachable framework for basic morality. Religions, for all their faults, and for all of their misguided morality, at least had morality frameworks that were more or less unified and teachable. What do we have now in their place?

Re: The Amish health care system

#15

Post by prime_factor »

markdown wrote: post #13
refurb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what some universal systems already do. I was reading up on Singapore. There is a baseline of insurance for hospital stays, but it's in a ward with 6 other patients in the same room. If you want something better (and there are tiers), you pay more. You can buy insurance policies that pay for the more comfortable stay.

The same in Fiji. We have universal health care, but anyone is of course free to forego that and pay (or use their private insurance) for a private room rather than a ward, or just go to a private hospital instead. I don't understand the debate about this in the US. It's as if the rich assume that things will change for the worse for them if universal health care is enacted.

What about middle class people who can't afford private care but fear that the socialized healthcare system will be of worse quality than what they currently have?

Re: The Amish health care system

#16

Post by voldacar »

_fq4v wrote: post #2

I thought the most interesting part was the commentary on non-Amish care in the past > I asked my literal grandmother, a 95 year old former nurse, how health care worked in her day. She said it just wasn’t a problem. Hospitals were supported by wealthy philanthropists and religious organizations. Poor people got treated for free. Middle class people paid as much as they could afford, which was often the whole bill, b…

Believe it or not, if you have a lot of money you can purchase nicer things than most people can afford

Re: The Amish health care system

#17

Post by paulryanrogers »

daenz wrote: post #14

>How do the Amish keep costs so low? R&D (plus a few other sources) identify some key strategies. >...the Amish are honorable customers. This separates them from insurance companies, who are constantly trying to scam providers however they can. Much of the increase in health care costs is “administrative expenses”, and much of these administrative expenses is hiring an army of lawyers, clerks, and billing professiona…

Freedom from ancient bigotry, magical thinking, and cults is worth an increase in amoral behavior IMO.

Truth is the Amish self select as the young ones can leave if they find the rules too constricting.

Re: The Amish health care system

#18

Post by floren »

I'm surely hopelessly naive and ill-informed for even asking, but is there a reason a hospital or clinic couldn't operate 100% without dealing with insurance? Do such places exist in the US? We always hear how the hospital sends a bill for $40,000, then the insurance company argues that down to $2000, but woe unto you if you DON'T have insurance because you'll have a hard time getting that same deal yourself. Couldn't a hospital just... send you a bill for $2000, and if you can't pay it you either ask about their low-income waivers, get into a payment plan, or I guess get blackballed as a deadbeat?

Re: The Amish health care system

#19

Post by a2tech »

Yeah...just no. The Amish are not a group you should be modeling yourself after. I grew up surrounded by the Amish and the clean living salt of the earth myth is simply that—a myth.

Re: The Amish health care system

#20

Post by pkaye »

dariusj18 wrote: post #6
_fq4v wrote: post #2

I thought the most interesting part was the commentary on non-Amish care in the past > I asked my literal grandmother, a 95 year old former nurse, how health care worked in her day. She said it just wasn’t a problem. Hospitals were supported by wealthy philanthropists and religious organizations. Poor people got treated for free. Middle class people paid as much as they could afford, which was often the whole bill, b…

I cannot imagine this covers access issues. There are a great number of communities without wealthy people near them.

Its already an issue in some areas where the Medicaid patients dominate over private insurance patients. Often times hospitals balance things by overcharging those they think they can.
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