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The internet’s fifth man (2013)

economist.com

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Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#11

Post by eru »

battery_cowboy wrote: post #5

This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on…

The Economist is quite proud of their signature concise style.

If you like that kind of writing, you can consider subscribing. (I used to read it cover to cover as a uni student, but have since grown out of it.)

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#12

Post by ghaff »

eru wrote: post #11
battery_cowboy wrote: post #5

This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on…

The Economist is quite proud of their signature concise style. If you like that kind of writing, you can consider subscribing. (I used to read it cover to cover as a uni student, but have since grown out of it.)

I do subscribe and enjoy it. On the other hand, I definitely don't read it cover to cover. I imagine they're the most comprehensive magazine in the world in covering political and business affairs in places that I imagine a lot of people would have trouble finding on a map. And there's a limit to how much time I'm going to spend reading about those sorts of topics that just aren't all that interesting (or important) to me.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#13

Post by ghaff »

ggm wrote: post #4

A significantly underrated progenitor. Not always recognised, and certainly not reflected adequately in the official historia recited often by Americans.

While I don't disagree, there is always a tendency to elevate a few people even when inventions are the collective works of many. Pouzin's contributions were important and he did coin the datagram term. At the same time, he built on earlier packet switching work by Paul Baran at RAND and Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#14

Post by notacoward »

ghaff wrote: post #13
ggm wrote: post #4

A significantly underrated progenitor. Not always recognised, and certainly not reflected adequately in the official historia recited often by Americans.

While I don't disagree, there is always a tendency to elevate a few people even when inventions are the collective works of many. Pouzin's contributions were important and he did coin the datagram term. At the same time, he built on earlier packet switching work by Paul Baran at RAND and Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory.

I've always wondered: who actually wrote the software for IMPs and such? Who debugged the lower-level (but still essential) operational issues? Was it the people we've heard of, or others whose contributions we've forgotten? I'm guessing the latter, but it's hard to be sure this much later.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#15

Post by ghaff »

notacoward wrote: post #14
ghaff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't disagree, there is always a tendency to elevate a few people even when inventions are the collective works of many. Pouzin's contributions were important and he did coin the datagram term. At the same time, he built on earlier packet switching work by Paul Baran at RAND and Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory.

I've always wondered: who actually wrote the software for IMPs and such? Who debugged the lower-level (but still essential) operational issues? Was it the people we've heard of, or others whose contributions we've forgotten? I'm guessing the latter, but it's hard to be sure this much later.

RFC 1 lists a few of the people who were involved: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#16

Post by mannykannot »

rmellow wrote: post #10
battery_cowboy wrote: post #5

This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on…

> This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today. Agreed! Why is that the style today? I've heard it has something to do with SEO but I'm unsure how, or if there are other reasons. This trend makes my skimming habit so much worse, because it actually justifies skipping ahead to meaningful words.

Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style; while the former may start off as the latter, it takes a lot of editing to hone it into a sharp implement.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#17

Post by mannykannot »

The term 'fifth man', especially in a British publication, tends to suggest cold-war spying (Anthony Blunt was number 4. As it happens, he also received royal honors, in a time when his unmasking was a closely held secret within British intelligence.)

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#18

Post by ghaff »

rmellow wrote: post #10
battery_cowboy wrote: post #5

This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on…

> This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today. Agreed! Why is that the style today? I've heard it has something to do with SEO but I'm unsure how, or if there are other reasons. This trend makes my skimming habit so much worse, because it actually justifies skipping ahead to meaningful words.

I doubt SEO which, in addition to metadata and so forth, is mostly about using terminology that people search for.

A lot of people naturally ramble and there are also certainly quality magazines that go for a longer more literary style (e.g. The New Yorker) that you apparently don't care for.

The Economist, while it likes its clever turns of phrase, especially in headlines, is both well-written/edited and direct.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#19

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

mannykannot wrote: post #16
rmellow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today. Agreed! Why is that the style today? I've heard it has something to do with SEO but I'm unsure how, or if there are other reasons. This trend makes my skimming habit so much worse, because it actually justifies skipping ahead to meaningful words.

Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style; while the former may start off as the latter, it takes a lot of editing to hone it into a sharp implement.

> Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style...

Totally true, but I think that's not what's happening. Yesterday an HN post was made about this https://lithub.com/the-wolves-of-stanislav-an-improbably-tru... It's carefully written to be like that, it's verbose by design, and I started skimming then closed it. I don't know why these timewaster articles are produced either, but it's not accident or laziness. Plenty irritating though.

Re: The internet’s fifth man (2013)

#20

Post by eru »

ghaff wrote: post #12
eru wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist is quite proud of their signature concise style. If you like that kind of writing, you can consider subscribing. (I used to read it cover to cover as a uni student, but have since grown out of it.)

I do subscribe and enjoy it. On the other hand, I definitely don't read it cover to cover. I imagine they're the most comprehensive magazine in the world in covering political and business affairs in places that I imagine a lot of people would have trouble finding on a map. And there's a limit to how much time I'm going to spend reading about those sorts of topics that just aren't all that interesting (or important)…

I had more time as a student.
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