Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6 • Hacker News Board

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#11

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #7

m0zg wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/chloroquine-ne-perdon... You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now. That is literally the choice at the moment. According to Peter Navarro, a good percentage of NYC patients are getting HCQ at the onset of symptoms now. Cuomo wants more of it, because it "appears to be working". Oklahoma is giv…

“You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

[deleted]

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#12

Post by jonny_eh » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/chloroquine-ne-perdon... You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now. That is literally the choice at the moment. According to Peter Navarro, a good percentage of NYC patients are getting HCQ at the onset of symptoms now. Cuomo wants more of it, because it "appears to be working". Oklahoma is giv…

> or you can try what works now

If you don't do studies, how else do you know if it works? Or what dosage? Or when to administer? Or downsides?

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#13

Post by tptacek » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:02 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #8

tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Substantial numbers of C19 patients are being given HCQ in C19 trials, but more than that, substantial numbers of newly-diagnosed C19 patients are already taking HCQ , since it's part of the standard of care for widespread conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. And those patients will of course have had the HCQ intervention before acquiring C19, not late in the course of their illness. It doesn't look like anyone is r…

Dosages for arthritis are pretty low, though.

Looks like the C19 dosages are comparable to the standard arthritis dosages?

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#14

Post by Mountain_Skies » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:02 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #4

m0zg wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/chloroquine-ne-perdon... You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now. That is literally the choice at the moment. According to Peter Navarro, a good percentage of NYC patients are getting HCQ at the onset of symptoms now. Cuomo wants more of it, because it "appears to be working". Oklahoma is giv…

The fact that you can buy the drug over the counter doesn't mean it's universally safe. The people being hospitalized here are already doing poorly so exposing them to additional risk is not something you should just do on a whim. As the linked post mentions, there are clear signs of potential risks associated with the use of HCQ. I hope for the patients being dosed with it now that it both works and is safe, but it'…

Is it being used as a treatment for those already on a ventilator? My impression is that it is being used as a way to help prevent patients from getting to the point of needing a ventilator.

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#15

Post by tptacek » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #9

kevingadd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you can buy the drug over the counter doesn't mean it's universally safe. The people being hospitalized here are already doing poorly so exposing them to additional risk is not something you should just do on a whim. As the linked post mentions, there are clear signs of potential risks associated with the use of HCQ. I hope for the patients being dosed with it now that it both works and is safe, but it'…

> doesn't mean it's universally safe _Table salt_ is not safe. Eat 100 grams of it and you will die. This does, however, mean that it's not as "dangerous" as the mainstream press wants you to believe. It's a 50 year old drug used all over the world. If it was "deadly", we'd know it by now. CDC itself recommends taking it _as a prophylaxis_ when heading to the areas where malaria might be present: https://www.cdc.gov/…

I think we can all intuitively see the distinction in risk tolerance between table salt consumption and HCQ consumption.

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#16

Post by Mountain_Skies » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #6

While other drugs are looking far more promising, there might be an obvious reason why despite lack of clear proof/results the president is pushing it so hard like everything else that motivates him: https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-...

Is it possible to corner the market on a generic drug that is produced across the world?

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#17

Post by war1025 » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

My completely anecdotal experience with the Hydroxychloroquine story is that researchers keep pooh-poohing it and people in the field keep having success with it.

All I know is that based on the aggregate of information I've seen thus far, if I come down with Coronavirus, I want to be prescribed that stuff.

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#18

Post by mirimir » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

raphlinus wrote: post #10

I'm a fan of this review, and of Derek Lowe in general. I especially like the way he explains effect size and also the reasons why we have to be cautious when looking at promising drugs. Another take, by James Hamblin at the Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/hydroxych... This is written for a more general audience, and is not shy about taking on the more political aspects, including the cla…

Yeah, I'm a huge fan too. And this is a great summary and perspective.

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#19

Post by legostormtroopr » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #7

m0zg wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/chloroquine-ne-perdon... You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now. That is literally the choice at the moment. According to Peter Navarro, a good percentage of NYC patients are getting HCQ at the onset of symptoms now. Cuomo wants more of it, because it "appears to be working". Oklahoma is giv…

“You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

Linking to wikipedia articles about logical fallacies isn't a debate tactic.

Re: Hydroxychloroquine Update for April 6

#20

Post by threeseed » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 11:05 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/chloroquine-ne-perdon... You can do double blind studies until your patients are literally blue in the face, or you can try what works now. That is literally the choice at the moment. According to Peter Navarro, a good percentage of NYC patients are getting HCQ at the onset of symptoms now. Cuomo wants more of it, because it "appears to be working". Oklahoma is giv…

> Peter Navarro

An economist with zero medical background who from media reports is fighting against Fauci on this issue.

Any hint of a cure will be taken by people as a reason to ignore social distancing and stay at home rules. Which will directly cause an uptick in cases and deaths. Hence we need to be very, very sure that any cure is a real one.