I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even). This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the informati…
Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
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Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#12I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even). This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the informati…
Ouch... Nasty stuff. I had no idea. Thanks for explaining all this in plain English because that paper is Chinese to me :)
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#13OK, so this is a little sobering for someone on 200 mg/day hydroxychloroquine for rheumatoid arthritis. And they were thinking about doubling that, until I complained that it made me feel brain dead. But then, the naproxen that I've been taking for decades is damaging my kidneys. And hurting all the time sucks. But anyway, I see that metformin is used to treat type 2 diabetes mellitus. And I vaguely recall that the i…
What do you mean it made you feel brain dead?
By "brain dead", I meant that I had difficulty focusing, and felt somewhat sedated. But then, I take so many drugs now that it's hard to really know which are doing what.
I mean, I could have increased the modafinil dose. But it was easy enough to take hydroxychloroquin at night, and naproxen in the morning. And hopefully my kidneys will be happier, even if my retinas etc are more at risk.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#14I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even). This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the informati…
“Only work in vitro” and the fact it’s actively used around the world in vivo contradict. Also can you cite the solid research showing hydroxychloroquine + arithromycin failing for covid-19?
I mean specifically with regards to treating covid-19, not for other purposes. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I didn’t say there’s a study that says hydroxychloroquine combined with arithromycin is an ineffective combination, but that unless there’s a scientific reason to assume something will increase the effectiveness of such a possibly lethal drug without exacerbating its negative side effects then there is no reason to start with the assumption that it is safe.
Keep in mind that the lack of rigor in the current pre-peer review literature coming out means that you have to take everything into account and with a grain of salt. For example, a drug showing effectiveness might have been with a mild case that started with a low viral load and wouldn’t have progressed any way (this is just an example, I’m not saying that is the case). Since the therapeutic index is so low, you can’t just dial up the dosage to treat severe cases that actually require pharmaceutical intervention, because it’s a non-starter.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#15I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even). This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the informati…
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Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#16So much effort is going in to the propaganda war against Hydroxychloroquine, it's really terrifying to watch.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Only work in vitro” and the fact it’s actively used around the world in vivo contradict. Also can you cite the solid research showing hydroxychloroquine + arithromycin failing for covid-19?
I mean specifically with regards to treating covid-19, not for other purposes. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I didn’t say there’s a study that says hydroxychloroquine combined with arithromycin is an ineffective combination, but that unless there’s a scientific reason to assume something will increase the effectiveness of such a possibly lethal drug without exacerbating its negative side effects then there is no reason…
Can you cite it not working for covid-19 in vivo? From what I've found there are early stage trials showing success, plus a few larger anecdotal populations showing bigger success, but nothing that scientifically definitively concludes either way.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#18The combination with met form in suggests this has little relevance to the Covid-19 discussion? The drugs are very old and very well understood and have very modest safety profiles.
Metformin is one of the most often prescribed drugs, particularly in the older population that might also suffer the most severe complications of covid19. If this is indeed fatal in humans you as a doctor have to be quite sure that you have the correct information on the patient before you attempt to treat with this.
I will also severely limit the scope of people who can be treated this way.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#19OK, so this is a little sobering for someone on 200 mg/day hydroxychloroquine for rheumatoid arthritis. And they were thinking about doubling that, until I complained that it made me feel brain dead. But then, the naproxen that I've been taking for decades is damaging my kidneys. And hurting all the time sucks. But anyway, I see that metformin is used to treat type 2 diabetes mellitus. And I vaguely recall that the i…
What do you mean it made you feel brain dead?
Methotrexate (Sarcoidosis) here, not hydroxychloroquine, both are DMARDs.
"Brain fog" is a more commonly used term, although no doubt people experience different things and would describe them differently. For me, it's a weird feeling of vagueness, and to what extent varies significantly. Sometimes it's hard to focus and do work, but not always. Usually it's just like everything is sort of "passing me by". You wouldn't know talking to me, I function just fine, so maybe it mostly just affects my perception of time and/or memories. It's subtle and weird.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
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