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PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

2ndquadrant.com

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Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#11

Post by m0skit0 »

jabl wrote: post #4
Jonnax wrote: post #2

This is advertising of course. But if I had to select an SQL DB postgres is my only choice. Perhaps I don't know enough about databases and their differences. Anyone have some pros and cons of others? Like why would I pick MySQL, Microsoft, Oracle, Maria etc over Postgres? Apart from support that you gotta pay for.

Well, (unfortunately) plenty of applications support only one DB backend. For FOSS software, MySQL/MariaDB support is very common, and even if those apps support pgSQL it might be that pgSQL support is not as robust and well-tested as mysql. And in plenty of situations, sqlite is perfectly adequate, and saves you from the extra work of managing yet another service. But yes, I agree if I'd start from a blank sheet and…

Yahoo uses PostgreSQL. I think that's pretty high-end requirements an debunks the myth of "commercial software is better for high end requirements".

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#12

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

"In the age old argument about the imperitive vs. the declarative5 programming models, it occurs to me that declarative programming is just imperative programming in a thin disguise. Each declarative token in a database query language ultimately maps to one or several algorithms which apply the declaration in imperitive terms"

Oh, profound, profound!

It occurs to me the author's a n00b.

Anyway, I do MSSQL. Until recently CTEs in PG were an optimisation fence. That would have slaughtered performance for my work. Not that I'm knocking PG, 'best' depends upon the problem.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#14

Post by mrweasel »

Jonnax wrote: post #2

This is advertising of course. But if I had to select an SQL DB postgres is my only choice. Perhaps I don't know enough about databases and their differences. Anyone have some pros and cons of others? Like why would I pick MySQL, Microsoft, Oracle, Maria etc over Postgres? Apart from support that you gotta pay for.

I think the only reason I wouldn't choose Postgresql is if I need master-master replication.

It's not that you can't create a master-master setup using Postgresql, I believe 2ndquadrant have and add-on that allows this. It just feels like it's messing with the fundamentals of the database on such a low level that I really only trust it, if it's part of Postgresql it self.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#15

Post by mulmen »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #12

"In the age old argument about the imperitive vs. the declarative5 programming models, it occurs to me that declarative programming is just imperative programming in a thin disguise. Each declarative token in a database query language ultimately maps to one or several algorithms which apply the declaration in imperitive terms" Oh, profound, profound! It occurs to me the author's a n00b. Anyway, I do MSSQL. Until rece…

MSSSQL people seem really proud of their CTEs. What is it that makes CTEs in MSSQL so great?

I wonder if that really disqualifies Postgres from the same task. Are MSSQL CTEs just the hammer for your proverbial nail? Can you use a different approach in Postgres to solve the problem by leveraging its strengths?

My day job is a lot of Redshift. We use CTEs and temp tables depending on what we need. It’s based on Postgres but not really comparable when talking about performance optimization.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#16

Post by thorin »

This talks a lot about Postgres (which is great ) but not about other databases so the title isn't very accurate. If you ignore cost it certainly doesn't explain why you'd work with Postgres rather than Oracle or SQLServer.

I've used Oracle for 20+ years, SQLServer for > 10 years, and Postgres from time to time and would say they are all good tools for a general use case.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#17

Post by irjustin »

While I disagree that it's the world's best, it is my default for all projects and general RMDBS.

I used to be MySQL but it felt like over time it was becoming hack on top of hack for each subsequent version while PG lacked a number of features in the early 2010's it has clearly caught up with great care to its codebase.

There are scenarios that PG does not win and should not be used, but if we're talking about the most applications that it covers well, PG is it.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#18

Post by willvarfar »

Jonnax wrote: post #2

This is advertising of course. But if I had to select an SQL DB postgres is my only choice. Perhaps I don't know enough about databases and their differences. Anyone have some pros and cons of others? Like why would I pick MySQL, Microsoft, Oracle, Maria etc over Postgres? Apart from support that you gotta pay for.

The main reason I use MySQL over Postgres is storage engines. MySQL has storage engines with transparent compression, which allow me to keep an order of magnitude more data than using Postgres. These days its MyRocks, in the past it was TokuDB.

Historically Postgres has thought that the job of the file system, which is basically a bad choice for dbs. MyRocks wipes the floor with it.

TimescaleDB is an interesting new Postgres storage choice. I'm evaluating it. But the free version doesn't do compression on-demand nor transparently. Anyway, it can only get better.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#19

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

mulmen wrote: post #15
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #12

"In the age old argument about the imperitive vs. the declarative5 programming models, it occurs to me that declarative programming is just imperative programming in a thin disguise. Each declarative token in a database query language ultimately maps to one or several algorithms which apply the declaration in imperitive terms" Oh, profound, profound! It occurs to me the author's a n00b. Anyway, I do MSSQL. Until rece…

MSSSQL people seem really proud of their CTEs. What is it that makes CTEs in MSSQL so great? I wonder if that really disqualifies Postgres from the same task. Are MSSQL CTEs just the hammer for your proverbial nail? Can you use a different approach in Postgres to solve the problem by leveraging its strengths? My day job is a lot of Redshift. We use CTEs and temp tables depending on what we need. It’s based on Postgre…

Here's the last line of my post: "Not that I'm knocking PG, 'best' depends upon the problem" I did not want to get into a war with people emotionally involved in their favourite programming tool. The article said 'best'. By that measure PG was worse. Point is it doesn't matter, it's about what problem you are trying to solve and at what price. In many cases PG is best for that - do you understand? I knew people would see it as an attack on PG. It's so childish and predictable. I solve business problems, not cheerlead for a particular RDBMS.

As for what made CTEs so great in MSSQL, I just explained in my first post. Look for 'optimisation fence', and understand that a) PG has changed and b) was not a personal attack.

> I wonder if that really disqualifies Postgres from the same task.

If you have 100GB of data being materialised as a temp table under the hood instead of having the predicates being pushed down, what do you think?

> Are MSSQL CTEs just the hammer for your proverbial nail?

Jesus, they're just a tool to get a job done. As for is there a way round it, probably, it just means more work for the programmer, and more stress for the SQL optimiser which will at some point fail as complexity climbs.

> We use CTEs and temp tables depending on what we need

same.

Re: PostgreSQL is the worlds’ best database

#20

Post by guiriduro »

endymi0n wrote: post #5
Jonnax wrote: post #2

This is advertising of course. But if I had to select an SQL DB postgres is my only choice. Perhaps I don't know enough about databases and their differences. Anyone have some pros and cons of others? Like why would I pick MySQL, Microsoft, Oracle, Maria etc over Postgres? Apart from support that you gotta pay for.

Having worked with dozens of different databases over lots of years, I can certainly say that Postgres is my go-to _default_ database over all the other relational ones. In the same way that Golang claims it's the 90% language ( https://talks.golang.org/2014/gocon-tokyo.slide#1 ), I'd say Postgres is the perfect 90% database. However, we're still using at least four other databases in production, and the reason why i…

I wouldn't say PostgreSQL was the analogue of golang: go's initial popular growth for being 'good enough' while being arguably oversimplified, where simplicity masks problems, under the pretence that YANGNI always applies (initial N emphasizing the Not of Aren't), seems much closer to MySQL's history.

PG was driven by engineering correctness, by considering what DBAs 'Are Going to Need'. Sometimes that strictness worked against popular growth but in the end it has worked out well, as many programmers figured out they also needed it. I'd say the programming language analogue would likely be Rust, lets see in 10 years where the 90% case lies.

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