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ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

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Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#11

Post by philipkglass »

flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

Urban farming only makes sense for high value, easily perishable produce. Fresh herbs, leafy greens, tomatoes, and other salad ingredients can be produced with higher quality when they are harvested and used on the same day, and when the plants don't have to be bred for shipment-and-storage durability. The real benefit is superior flavor and texture for quality-focused, price-insensitive eaters.

Note that this product site touts how much lettuce the system can grow.

More radical claims about how vertical farms will reduce CO2 emissions or feed a growing world population are aspirational to the point of delusion. Vertical farming isn't going to replace the calories that people get from potatoes and beans grown in big plots of dirt outdoors. If you ate potatoes grown in a nearby vertical farm instead of ones grown in Idaho and shipped across the country, you'd actually be increasing your carbon footprint.

It takes only a little energy to move a potato a thousand miles cross-country. It takes a lot of energy to grow a potato under artificial light. Even though renewable energy is ~20x better in life cycle emissions than fossil energy, it takes more than 20x as much energy to grow potatoes under artificial light. From a CO2 life cycle perspective you're better off eating potatoes that had ordinary diesel powered tractors, trains, and trucks involved in their production and delivery than to eat potatoes that were grown in a wind-powered vertical farm next door to you.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#12

Post by TACIXAT »

flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

It appeals to me. Even if the cost was higher, building the capability locally seems very valuable. As well, not all costs are monetary. If the pollution is lower (e.g. from eliminating transportation) it may be worth paying the higher price.

Another appeal is knowing exactly what goes into your food.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#13

Post by wallacoloo »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #5
flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

If (a really big IF) solar panels can get efficient enough while LEDs also become more efficient, in theory plants grown indoors being fed by LEDs attuned to the precise portions of the spectrum they need with the whole thing powered by the solar panels, you could get a better yield than outdoor growing. Figure out cost effective fusion, things get even better. But neither is the case right now. As far as the urban a…

> As far as the urban agriculture crowd goes, they're concerned about the length of their logistics lines to their tables. Raspberries grown half a mile down the street in winter is better for the environment than flying them in from another hemisphere.

Aside from environmental effects, it’s also just a more secure logistics chain. A person needs water, food, and shelter to survive. Sometimes it feels strange to me that the trend of the past centuries has been to increase the distance between a person and those sources — to introduce more points of failure between you and the things you need in order to survive.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#14

Post by wenc »

flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

What are "solad roads"?

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#15

Post by Bertio »

swiftcoder wrote: post #7
gonesilent wrote: post #2

$399 for $25 in plastic. Go to home depot and buy some rain plastic gutters.

Every time one of these vertical/rotating indoor farms comes onto the market (usually via crowdfunding), it has roughly the same level of cost inflation. Haven't quite figured out who they are conning into buying these setups.

I have a way overpriced aerogarden farm and for me it's really just decor along the lines of having an aquarium. It certainly doesn't yield enough of anything to be worth the price. I contemplated something DIY but I didn't think I could get the clean aesthetics. I have a 3d printer now so I could probably make something that looks less like a hack now.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#16

Post by TheSoftwareGuy »

TACIXAT wrote: post #12
flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

It appeals to me. Even if the cost was higher, building the capability locally seems very valuable. As well, not all costs are monetary. If the pollution is lower (e.g. from eliminating transportation) it may be worth paying the higher price. Another appeal is knowing exactly what goes into your food.

Most of the pollution from food production comes from actually producing the food. Things like tractors and stuff use a lot of fuel.

Furthermore, putting farms in urban buildings means that some urban businesses or residences will ha e to be moved further out, increasing pollution. In reality, this would move the pollution to the urban areas, and not reduce it.

Lastly, I can’t think of a reason that you’d know more about farming practices if it happens in an urban environment than in a rural environment

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#17

Post by zo1 »

gullyfur wrote: post #10
swiftcoder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time one of these vertical/rotating indoor farms comes onto the market (usually via crowdfunding), it has roughly the same level of cost inflation. Haven't quite figured out who they are conning into buying these setups.

What's the best DIY video on building something like this? I don't even know where to start.

I saw this guy a while back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzcC6zkDDiY

I think he got a lot of flack for pointing out that the zip-grow towers are way overpriced and you can DIY them yourself reasonably well. There really isn't anything too-complicated about the ZipGrow towers, other than that they use a sponge as a media.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#18

Post by Retric »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #5
flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

If (a really big IF) solar panels can get efficient enough while LEDs also become more efficient, in theory plants grown indoors being fed by LEDs attuned to the precise portions of the spectrum they need with the whole thing powered by the solar panels, you could get a better yield than outdoor growing. Figure out cost effective fusion, things get even better. But neither is the case right now. As far as the urban a…

Until you genetically engineer a more efficient plant and your back to a net loss even assuming absolutely free panels and LED’s etc.

Vertical farming only really works as either artistic preference for maximum visual appeal or the kind of science fiction where you assume only a small handful of technology advanced.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#19

Post by elcritch »

I worked for the company that developed the technology. Personally not much of a green-thumb myself, but it's great to see how much you can grow with vertical towers, either in a greenhouse or indoors with LED lights. You can grow about 3-4x what you would get with a flat grow bed for many plants [1]. While the towers are great, the real trick is the grow media as you want it robust enough to survive while not suffocating the roots.

For those interested in starting your own farm or just gardening I'd highly recommend "UpStart Farmers" [2]. A friend of mine help's moderate it and is really focused on helping people learn vertical farming and aquaponics. They have an enormous selection of content regarding various aspects such as nutrient mixes, dealing with pests, etc. The community is also active and helpful to each other.

FYI: This is from the Canadian licensee's of the original Bright Agrotech that was acquired by Plenty Ag [3]. I'm bullish that indoor farming will be a big boon in providing more localized and therefore fresh and nutritional vegetables and leafy greens for much of the world's population. The economics are slowly improving with LED efficiency increases and capital infusion to scale farms.

1: https://search.proquest.com/openview/ccf876147b3e8a224da6770... 2: https://www.upstartfarmers.com 3: https://www.plenty.ag/the-feed/plenty-acquires-bright-agrote...

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#20

Post by hogFeast »

flagada wrote: post #3

I don't really understand the whole "urban agriculture" crowd. People do often live in crowded cities, but there's plenty of space to grow stuff on outside of cities. It's the same kind of thinking that gave us the solad roads (which were, predictably, a catastrophic failure).

Look at the Netherlands. They have no land and one of the largest agricultural producers in the world.

More efficient, cheaper, better for the environment...the benefits are pretty much endless. It isn't about "urban" but using what we have more efficiently.

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