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I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

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Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#11

Post by amelius »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9
xzel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web queues are ineffective as shown by sneaker bots. You’d need actual ID style authentication of accounts. If you’re talking about order queues than people will stuff the queue and cancel their orders or just have more hoarding if their multiple deliveries get processed. If it’s FIFO same technical advantages will apply: bots can click much faster than humans ever will. I think the issue is more human nature and thi…

Require SMS or callback confirmation of the order slot using a non-Google/Twilio/SIP number (mobile phones or landlines both work here). Provide for one time order cancellation at no cost, cancellations after that incur a $10 cancellation fee. This should negate any technical advantage from a sophisticated entity. Queues still work, if managed properly.

Cancellation costs may be against local consumer laws.

But I think you wouldn't need it with upfront payment and some simple anti-hoarding rules.

Also the delivery address or payment id could be used in a way to make this fair.

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#12

Post by nsnick »

Brakenshire wrote: post #4

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

To add to this, if the sick can’t get grocery delivery, they will go to the grocery stores.

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#13

Post by [deleted] »

amelius wrote: post #11
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Require SMS or callback confirmation of the order slot using a non-Google/Twilio/SIP number (mobile phones or landlines both work here). Provide for one time order cancellation at no cost, cancellations after that incur a $10 cancellation fee. This should negate any technical advantage from a sophisticated entity. Queues still work, if managed properly.

Cancellation costs may be against local consumer laws. But I think you wouldn't need it with upfront payment and some simple anti-hoarding rules. Also the delivery address or payment id could be used in a way to make this fair.

[deleted]

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#14

Post by jbm »

Brakenshire wrote: post #4

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger.

[1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#15

Post by nsnick »

jbm wrote: post #14
Brakenshire wrote: post #4

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...

But not everyone can get grocery delivery, so who should have priority?

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#16

Post by somebodynew »

xzel wrote: post #7
somebodynew wrote: post #3

It seems like a lot of demand issues highlighted by the pandemic could be solved by queues. Instead of saying "there are no slots available", put the user in the queue. Process the queue in order. The improvement in wait time and demand accuracy would be a win for both consumers and the business.

Web queues are ineffective as shown by sneaker bots. You’d need actual ID style authentication of accounts. If you’re talking about order queues than people will stuff the queue and cancel their orders or just have more hoarding if their multiple deliveries get processed. If it’s FIFO same technical advantages will apply: bots can click much faster than humans ever will. I think the issue is more human nature and thi…

Bots are typically used to buy out a limited supply of something like concert tickets. Clicking quickly or responding immediately to availability changes wouldn't give bots any advantage when there's nothing but a FIFO queue.

If I were setting this up for a grocery delivery platform, I would require the delivery address be provided upfront to enter the queue. Validate and standardize the address using the official Postal Service API (in the US). Prohibit changing the delivery address once in the queue, and prohibit the same address from appearing in the queue multiple times. Those requirements eliminate the mechanical possibility and incentive to partake in any sort of hoarding or profiteering using bots.

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#17

Post by gruez »

jbm wrote: post #14
Brakenshire wrote: post #4

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...

>38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1]

This is odd statistic to give, considering it's not normalized by how many 20-54 year olds are there. So I clicked through to the original study[1] and found a more helpful figure: people between the ages of 20-44 have a hospitalization rate of 14.3%-20.8%, and an ICU admission rate of 2.0%-4.2%.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm...

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#18

Post by klipt »

Swizec wrote: post #6

I’ve just been going to the grocery store as usual and it works great. You show up in the morning and there’s no line yet and shelfs are full. Later in the day they meter entry so you can keep distance inside. Don’t be that ass who makes others do your shopping just coz you’re too afraid to.

In store: you need to have someone stock the shelves, someone walk through the store and pick groceries, and someone handle the payment in person. Chance of infection: depends how long since someone coughed in the store.

Online: you need someone to stock the orders and wait for people to drive up for curbside pickup. Chance of infection: low.

Surely the second option is both safer and more efficient?

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#19

Post by Nextgrid »

xzel wrote: post #7
somebodynew wrote: post #3

It seems like a lot of demand issues highlighted by the pandemic could be solved by queues. Instead of saying "there are no slots available", put the user in the queue. Process the queue in order. The improvement in wait time and demand accuracy would be a win for both consumers and the business.

Web queues are ineffective as shown by sneaker bots. You’d need actual ID style authentication of accounts. If you’re talking about order queues than people will stuff the queue and cancel their orders or just have more hoarding if their multiple deliveries get processed. If it’s FIFO same technical advantages will apply: bots can click much faster than humans ever will. I think the issue is more human nature and thi…

Sneaker stores rely on exclusivity so the bots used by resellers are considered a problem. Of course, the real problem is the idea of exclusivity in the first place but that’s besides the point.

Supermarkets don’t have that problem - their goods are not that exclusive and not sought after at scale (anyone wanting to resell the products at scale can get them cheaper from the manufacturer directly).

Re: I had to build a web scraper to buy groceries

#20

Post by throwaway3563 »

jbm wrote: post #14
Brakenshire wrote: post #4

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...

All the more reason to dedicate the slots for the disproportionately-represented older cohort.
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