Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#11

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #5

bamboozled wrote: post #2

“Health-care facilities don’t remotely have the supplies that would allow staff members to see every patient with all that gear on.“ As the article states, China had that ability. If that statement is true, It’s amazing to me that this is something China can do and not the U.S.A. The country that put man on the moon not even a century ago! Incredible. I feel like there are a lot of acquisitions lately that go on abou…

> The country that put man on the moon not even a century ago! Aren't those two massively different tasks/skills? And both in massively different situations?

It seems though that the US couldn’t actually go back to the moon or maybe even put people into space without the Soyuz, so now so it’s lost those capabilities amongst others, that is my point.

Even in a crisis, all that economic wealth and military dominance that the US claims to have can’t put masks and gowns on people that need them, so is there really much steam left in the tank ? I hope there is and I’m sure there is, it just needs to find the right channels. God Bless America!

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#12

Post by GordonS » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

I think if you're going to make a post like this, it's reasonable to expect that you present some actual evidence, or is your whole argument that we should ignore evidence?

"Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective" is hardly a compelling case.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#13

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #3

There is a lot of conflicting data. China went full hazmat with the influx of new healthcare workers they sent into Hubei, but Singapore and Honk Kong took significantly more measured approaches which ultimately have also been successful in limiting exposure. The US policy of 14 day quarantine for healthcare workers who had even limited exposure to a COVID patient was never sustainable and threatened to shut entire E…

You do realise it’s not eradicated in HK or Singapore ?

I’m not sure why people keep talking like this is all in the past for these countries ?

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#14

Post by harikb » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #10

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

How widespread is widespread? Japan, South Korea, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan… these are countries in which people wear masks in large numbers on a normal day. They all still have an R0 above 1.

Those countries also have higher population densities and public transport usage than some of the western countries. How can you say the mask isn’t helping?

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#15

Post by ZhuanXia » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

China has half the world’s manufacturing ability, a civil service selected strongly for cognitive ability, a much more diligent and capable people, and a large population. Not to mention experience in pandemics of this type. China will become zeroth world shortly. We will have to get used to them surpassing us.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#16

Post by kingaillas » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

jtdev wrote: post #4

Can we all agree that outsourcing the production of critical medical supplies to China over recent decades was a bad idea? I understand the “golden arches” theory, and the intent if globalism, but I feel that COVID19 has revealed what a short sighted, deeply flawed view the globalists have.

Exactly! I too understand the theory of competitive advantage, but in light of this new information, current economic/business/free-market theory needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to take into account risks (global supply chain disruption, customer base vanishing, etc) seriously considered.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#17

Post by IAmGraydon » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

You can’t reduce the basic reproduction number (R0) of a pathogen. You can reduce doubling time and similar metrics of the actual spread, but R0 is a fixed number. What you are referring to is the effective reproduction number, which is the rate of spread in a population at it’s current state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#18

Post by mistrial9 » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

IAmGraydon wrote: post #17

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

You can’t reduce the basic reproduction number (R0) of a pathogen. You can reduce doubling time and similar metrics of the actual spread, but R0 is a fixed number. What you are referring to is the effective reproduction number, which is the rate of spread in a population at it’s current state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

citation please

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#19

Post by wavepruner » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #12

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

I think if you're going to make a post like this, it's reasonable to expect that you present some actual evidence, or is your whole argument that we should ignore evidence? "Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective" is hardly a compelling case.

Here's a source that supports OP's claims: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#20

Post by etage3 » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #12

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

I think if you're going to make a post like this, it's reasonable to expect that you present some actual evidence, or is your whole argument that we should ignore evidence? "Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective" is hardly a compelling case.

Another study on homemade masks: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_t... "Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask. Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection."