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TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

theintercept.com

11–20 of 356 posts

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#11
post #3

Well, I guess those videos turn people off and they stay on the app less, and TikTok wants to make money. TikTok works with AI, but the same would happen on Facebook, where people click on "Like" manually. Cry me a river.

This is not about low quality content getting automatically filtered out by an algorithm because people don't like it. This is about TikTok using human moderators to prevent users from ever seeing content made by people they don't like.

So, like reddit?

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#12
post #9
post #3

Well, I guess those videos turn people off and they stay on the app less, and TikTok wants to make money. TikTok works with AI, but the same would happen on Facebook, where people click on "Like" manually. Cry me a river.

TikTok works with AI No, it's manually done by humans.

It's not. The whole point is that you keep scrolling and they show you what the algo thinks you'll like.

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#13
post #3

Well, I guess those videos turn people off and they stay on the app less, and TikTok wants to make money. TikTok works with AI, but the same would happen on Facebook, where people click on "Like" manually. Cry me a river.

this is a very cogent point. algorithims act as a layer of abstraction and somehow gives people an escape for moral culpability. i wonder what facebooks algorithms would have done during US slavery, in nazi germany, during the apartheid, or any other (countless) horriffic human event? no doubt we will hoist pitchforks at tiktok for being authoritarian chinese and neglect our own senseless populism.

How are algorithms a "layer of abstraction" for guidelines given to human moderators?

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#14
post #3

Well, I guess those videos turn people off and they stay on the app less, and TikTok wants to make money. TikTok works with AI, but the same would happen on Facebook, where people click on "Like" manually. Cry me a river.

This is not about low quality content getting automatically filtered out by an algorithm because people don't like it. This is about TikTok using human moderators to prevent users from ever seeing content made by people they don't like.

So, like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube..?

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#15
post #6

The Russians call this "face control"; the practice of maintaining a club full of only good looking people by the bouncers. It's unpleasant, but a handy reminder that TikTok and other social networks don't work for you, but make you into a product.

To play devil's advocate, presumably they work for some people, people that want to go to a club in which they attendees are selected by looks.

Sounds just like a lifestyle magazine, or a catwalk, or a million other situations that have been normalised in which people are chosen for how they look (just about every prospectus appears to choose people to present their idea of the right type of diversity, for example).

It's not great, but TikTok just seems to be doing the same as most other organisations?

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about low quality content getting automatically filtered out by an algorithm because people don't like it. This is about TikTok using human moderators to prevent users from ever seeing content made by people they don't like.

So, like reddit?

Moderators of the subreddits in reddit are normal reddit users (normally) compared to the moderators in TikTok who I presume are selected by the company and on payroll (or contractors maybe, I seem to recall Facebook uses contractors for this)

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok works with AI No, it's manually done by humans.

It's not. The whole point is that you keep scrolling and they show you what the algo thinks you'll like.

Sure, the algorithm will try to figure out what you like and put that on the top, but the things being removed by humans don't even get into the algorithm, they are completely removed.

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#18
post #3

Well, I guess those videos turn people off and they stay on the app less, and TikTok wants to make money. TikTok works with AI, but the same would happen on Facebook, where people click on "Like" manually. Cry me a river.

this is a very cogent point. algorithims act as a layer of abstraction and somehow gives people an escape for moral culpability. i wonder what facebooks algorithms would have done during US slavery, in nazi germany, during the apartheid, or any other (countless) horriffic human event? no doubt we will hoist pitchforks at tiktok for being authoritarian chinese and neglect our own senseless populism.

I wonder if racists get friend suggestions for people who aren't their "race" in appearance terms; I'm imagining that could be an emergent selection not explicitly encoded for. If that were the case ... would it be so different to people making that selection. It's a question of allowance vs. instigation I suppose ... but if you knew that behaviour was likely to emerge then the line gets blurred somewhat ...

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a very cogent point. algorithims act as a layer of abstraction and somehow gives people an escape for moral culpability. i wonder what facebooks algorithms would have done during US slavery, in nazi germany, during the apartheid, or any other (countless) horriffic human event? no doubt we will hoist pitchforks at tiktok for being authoritarian chinese and neglect our own senseless populism.

How are algorithms a "layer of abstraction" for guidelines given to human moderators?

I think his point is that if people set the objectives, the AI will learn what people like, and that is going to be discriminatory in some way.

Re: TikTok told moderators to suppress posts by “ugly” people and the poor

#20
How is this different from nightclubs having a high bar to entry?

I am not saying this is an ethical thing to do, I am saying these apps are no different from nightclubs and they gotta do what they gotta do to survive. And no matter what you may say, humans prefer non ugly people over ugly people. I am sorry but this is simply how humans work. If you disagree, then you are a hypocrite.

So should high end nightclubs be publicly shamed for doing what they do (when what their "users" want is exactly non-ugly people) and driven out of business?

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