An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives • Hacker News Board

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#11

Post by decentralised » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

ShorsHammer wrote: post #9

decentralised wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even close to being correct, and blogs from maximalists are never a good source of correct information. Happy to walk you through what PoS looks like in 2020, but you can look up the information yourself too.

Given the unwillingness to back up your argument, would you instead simply show one pure Proof of Stake system that is used today?

If you can define "pure" in terms of how it relates to energy consumption, I can try.

The one PoS system I'm (edit: deeply) familiar with is Ethereum 2.0's, I wrote about it a couple of years back: https://medium.com/@jpa_of_snc/consensus-casper-and-cryptoec...

There are testnets using this already: https://medium.com/prysmatic-labs/ethereum-2-0-phase-0-testn...

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#12

Post by ppf » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 11:46 AM UTC

decentralised wrote: post #7

snisarenko wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PoS will not solve anything. PoS is just obfuscated proof of work. The same amount of "resources" will be wasted in a PoS system, its just going to be a different type of resource. Required reading http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ HN Discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16451187 Also newer article http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pos-still-pointless/

That's not even close to being correct, and blogs from maximalists are never a good source of correct information. Happy to walk you through what PoS looks like in 2020, but you can look up the information yourself too.

Tell me, what does PoS look like in 2020, apart from delayed?

ps. Using the word "maximalist" immediately shrinks your audience to other die-hard crypto fans.

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#13

Post by decentralised » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

ppf wrote: post #12

decentralised wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even close to being correct, and blogs from maximalists are never a good source of correct information. Happy to walk you through what PoS looks like in 2020, but you can look up the information yourself too.

Tell me, what does PoS look like in 2020, apart from delayed? ps. Using the word "maximalist" immediately shrinks your audience to other die-hard crypto fans.

I'm not in it for the audience.. in any case, maximalism is mostly a self-assigned title and the author of that blog describes himself as such

edit: how can something that is being discovered be late? The work on PoS is almost completely greenfield and far from trivial. Many people made many far too optimistic comments about how long it would take to get it right but no one can say it's late...

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#14

Post by ppf » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 12:22 PM UTC

decentralised wrote: post #13

ppf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me, what does PoS look like in 2020, apart from delayed? ps. Using the word "maximalist" immediately shrinks your audience to other die-hard crypto fans.

I'm not in it for the audience.. in any case, maximalism is mostly a self-assigned title and the author of that blog describes himself as such edit: how can something that is being discovered be late? The work on PoS is almost completely greenfield and far from trivial. Many people made many far too optimistic comments about how long it would take to get it right but no one can say it's late...

Right, so when you say you'll tell us the state of PoS in 2020, the answer is "currently unsolved".

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#15

Post by latchkey » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #4

latchkey wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You basically described PoW (proof-of-work) mining, which was (imho) the actual innovation with Bitcoin. The current idea though is to build a byzantine fault tolerant system that doesn't require massive amounts of "wasted" power. I put wasted in quotes because it is actually doing something, it is just the output isn't useful for much more than validating the transactions. Interestingly, Maker is currently built on…

I was looking at Etherium recently, and thought HBM on the new Xilinx Alveo would be perfect to attack the problem. I wish I had an Alveo board. Sheesh, now would be the time. You could fit the whole DAG into HBM.

Take a look at the light eval method [1].

Even with HBM on the card... while it will hash fast, you're still going through the memory controller. What you need to do is skip that. Get rid of the memory hardness entirely. Generate the DAG on demand.

[1] https://github.com/ethereum-cat-herders/progpow-audit/blob/m...

Re: An exploration of MakerDAO’s governance incentives

#16

Post by decentralised » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 4:21 PM UTC

ppf wrote: post #14

decentralised wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in it for the audience.. in any case, maximalism is mostly a self-assigned title and the author of that blog describes himself as such edit: how can something that is being discovered be late? The work on PoS is almost completely greenfield and far from trivial. Many people made many far too optimistic comments about how long it would take to get it right but no one can say it's late...

Right, so when you say you'll tell us the state of PoS in 2020, the answer is "currently unsolved".

There are testnest live for some time now but there is still plenty to do before anyone should trust their funds into the staking contracts.

edit: I mean, several dPoS networks went live without spending enough time considering the game theory attacks, but now we've seen them used on EOS and more recently on Steem so thats why I (personally) believe a real PoS is still a few months away at best.