Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#11

Post by mjevans » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Vote for no more adjustments, I don't care if that's UTC, nation wide 'Eastern', DST or not DST... just leave things the same all year. I've got a slight preference for everyone going UTC with no DST so that meetings and events are easier to schedule across the world.

UTC would be great if it weren't for how everyone wants to think of E.G. 8AM or 9AM or whatever as a common start time and then uses DST to try and adjust the clocks rather than the times people do things.

The current time isn't particularly useful either, noon isn't even directly tied to the solar apex in most places (due to the timezones and more complex orbit / tilt interactions).

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#12

Post by blackguardx » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #11

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Vote for no more adjustments, I don't care if that's UTC, nation wide 'Eastern', DST or not DST... just leave things the same all year. I've got a slight preference for everyone going UTC with no DST so that meetings and events are easier to schedule across the world. UTC would be great if it weren't for how everyone wants to think of E.G. 8AM or 9AM or whatever as a common start time and then uses DST to try and adj…

They already do this in China. They have one time zone, but people in Western China don't actually shift their schedules. That means that a 9:00 AM start time for work is actually more like 6:00 AM Solar Time. All of China's timezone is keyed to Beijing time.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#13

Post by munk-a » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

I wouldn't be quite so fatalist - if there is a strong push for getting rid of seasonal time shifts then, if congress refuses this request, there will probably be a pretty big stink.

Non-binding resolutions are non-binding... but they also represent the will of the people and politicians that gleefully ignore non-binding resolutions do so with a risk of failing to be re-elected.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#14

Post by munk-a » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #7

java-man wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the amount of light, it's the abrupt change in the sleep pattern.

Never changing it would only result in gradual changes of sleep pattern.

And humans tend to do alright with gradual changes - they tend to have problems with sudden changes (like flying to a different time zone)

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#15

Post by samatman » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #11

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Vote for no more adjustments, I don't care if that's UTC, nation wide 'Eastern', DST or not DST... just leave things the same all year. I've got a slight preference for everyone going UTC with no DST so that meetings and events are easier to schedule across the world. UTC would be great if it weren't for how everyone wants to think of E.G. 8AM or 9AM or whatever as a common start time and then uses DST to try and adj…

Right now, if I want to schedule a meeting with London, I have two steps: figure out a good time for me, check if it's reasonable in London, adjust if necessary.

If London was in the same time zone, I'd have to ascertain, somehow, what 0800 actually means in terms of the workday, and multiply that across every time zone I have to confer with (and there are a lot).

No thanks. I like knowing that 5 pm means more-or-less the same thing everywhere except Western China, which happily enough doesn't really come up in my day-to-day life.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#16

Post by dmckeon » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:45 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #11

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Vote for no more adjustments, I don't care if that's UTC, nation wide 'Eastern', DST or not DST... just leave things the same all year. I've got a slight preference for everyone going UTC with no DST so that meetings and events are easier to schedule across the world. UTC would be great if it weren't for how everyone wants to think of E.G. 8AM or 9AM or whatever as a common start time and then uses DST to try and adj…

If a country does any no-adjustment approach nationwide, people may want a single common day of the month to do daylight sensitive schedule adjustments, such as outdoor sports practices.

I propose overnight on the first Sunday of a month. For example, the week before, in spring (Northern hemisphere) soccer (or whatever activity) practice is at 16:00, the week after at 16:30 or 17:00 or whatever. In fall, the reverse, but the schedules all change on the same day. (Outliers will happen - this is a 90:10 suggestion, not 100:0.)

Think of all the families with 2 or 3 kids who have 2, 3, or 4 different activities each week, all at different times. Do we really want their schedules to potentially change in every week of the month? Yes, super-soccer mom or dad could cope, but why not try to keep it simpler?

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#17

Post by Jedd » Tue, Mar 03, 2020, 11:58 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Are you absolutely sure people aren't having a lend of you?

Or that there's a translation problem -- that they're insisting that it 'creates' an hour of sunlight during the part of the day that's most useful for them? (Implicitly acknowledging they lose that at the other end.)

If it's not these, then I weep. People's view of how the world (and moon) fits within the solar system must be severely broken.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#18

Post by zenexer » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 12:11 AM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #17

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Are you absolutely sure people aren't having a lend of you? Or that there's a translation problem -- that they're insisting that it 'creates' an hour of sunlight during the part of the day that's most useful for them? (Implicitly acknowledging they lose that at the other end.) If it's not these, then I weep. People's view of how the world (and moon) fits within the solar system must be severely broken.

The most intelligent person I know refused to believe me when I said that there would be fewer daylight hours in the winter when he visited me in the north. Of course, he was smart enough to research it on his own and come to the correct conclusion, but it was an entirely foreign concept to him.

That being said, I also know plenty of people who understand the concept perfectly, but also insist they will "gain" an hour of sunlight in their day if we use DST year-round. Why? Because they're right! Where I live, in the winter, the sun rises before many people wake up, but sets in the early afternoon. Keep DST year-round, and you experience an extra hour of sunlight--even if you're not technically gaining it.

One could argue that we should simply be waking up earlier and going to bed earlier, but that's a hard pattern to follow when nothing is open early in the morning.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#19

Post by ArlenBales » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 12:16 AM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

DST doesn't create more sunlight, but it absolutely creates more opportunities to get sunlight, allowing more time to enjoy outside activities after work. e.g. physical exercise.

I commute to work everyday on my bicycle through a large city park, all year long, rain or shine, night or day. It's about 3.5 miles one way. I've been doing this for roughly 5 years. I personally look forward to DST just for warmer commute home and not having to night ride with bike lights.

It's astonishing the difference in outside activity I've seen when DST is observed or not.

When DST is not observed, outside activity in the park on my commute effectively evaporates at 5PM except for headlamp runners (which, curiously, are mostly groups of older folks).

When DST is observed, outside activity flourishes well until 8PM.

I have not observed any difference in morning outside activity on my commutes with or without DST. I think people are just more likely to do outside activities in the evening as opposed to the morning, most likely because mornings are colder (far colder in the winter), and on weekdays most start work in the morning and/or have to drop their kids off at school, leaving little time in the morning for outdoor activities.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#20

Post by minikites » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

I'm a fan of changing the clocks twice a year for the reasons nicely laid out in this article: http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/2013/03/why-i-like-dst/

>If we stayed on Standard Time throughout the year, sunrise here in the Chicago area would be between 4:15 and 4:30 am from the middle of May through the middle of July. And if you check the times for civil twilight, which is when it’s bright enough to see without artificial light, you’ll find that that starts half an hour earlier. This is insane and a complete waste of sunlight.

>If, by the way, you think the solution is to stay on DST throughout the year, I can only tell you that we tried that back in the 70s and it didn’t turn out well. Sunrise here in Chicago was after 8:00 am, which put school children out on the street at bus stops before dawn in the dead of winter. It was the same on the East Coast. Nobody liked that.

Changing clocks is a hassle but the alternatives are worse.