A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python • Hacker News Board

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#11

Post by ARandomerDude » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

cmroanirgo wrote: post #7

I adore governments' classification system which can state things are classified as 'unclassified', and by extension to hijack the meaning of 'classified' to mean 'top secret'. On a topic relevant note, from the original twitter feed [0] which announced/released this (as part of FOIA) a helpful person also mentioned a lightweight download of the ?same document[1] (18MB vs 118MB). [0] https://twitter.com/chris_swenson…

Top Secret is only one of several levels of classification.

You really need to mark things as unclassified in the government because other people need to be able to answer basic questions like:

- what computer am I allowed to view/edit/save/transmit this on?

- can I talk to my coworkers about this, and if so, which ones?

- what do I do with printed copies of this document?

Answering these questions wrong can land you in serious trouble, including jail time. So even as a courtesy to your peers, you want to mark them (U).

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#12

Post by scarejunba » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #11

cmroanirgo wrote: post #7

I adore governments' classification system which can state things are classified as 'unclassified', and by extension to hijack the meaning of 'classified' to mean 'top secret'. On a topic relevant note, from the original twitter feed [0] which announced/released this (as part of FOIA) a helpful person also mentioned a lightweight download of the ?same document[1] (18MB vs 118MB). [0] https://twitter.com/chris_swenson…

Top Secret is only one of several levels of classification. You really need to mark things as unclassified in the government because other people need to be able to answer basic questions like: - what computer am I allowed to view/edit/save/transmit this on? - can I talk to my coworkers about this, and if so, which ones? - what do I do with printed copies of this document? Answering these questions wrong can land you…

That's apparent to the guy you're responding to. He's pointing out that the so-called "unclassified" is actually the class "non-secret". A truly "unclassified" object would not have gone through the process of classification. It would not have a class.

Of course in English this is fairly common. The object of price zero is said to have no price. Yet clearly it has a price, it is just zero.

I have to say that's an amusing observation and sort of reveals the type errors that occur when we model real world things in type systems.

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#13

Post by tetrazine » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

There’s probably nothing to this, but when I try to screenshot the pdf (https://ia802805.us.archive.org/7/items/comp3321/comp3321.pd...) on iOS Safari, my phone locks up for a moment with a black screen and spinner and then I have to unlock the phone. Doesn’t happen on other PDFs on archive.org or after I’ve saved it to iBooks. Can anyone replicate? Is this perhaps the result of some byzantine configuration state in the PDF spec that Apple has chosen to implement or that their implementation is choking on?

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#14

Post by Daviey » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #12

ARandomerDude wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top Secret is only one of several levels of classification. You really need to mark things as unclassified in the government because other people need to be able to answer basic questions like: - what computer am I allowed to view/edit/save/transmit this on? - can I talk to my coworkers about this, and if so, which ones? - what do I do with printed copies of this document? Answering these questions wrong can land you…

That's apparent to the guy you're responding to. He's pointing out that the so-called "unclassified" is actually the class "non-secret". A truly "unclassified" object would not have gone through the process of classification. It would not have a class. Of course in English this is fairly common. The object of price zero is said to have no price. Yet clearly it has a price, it is just zero. I have to say that's an amu…

The United Kingdom's previous system for marking school exams (GCSE) had a marking scheme from "A*/A" to "F", and then "U". Where "U" was Ungraded. Clearly it was graded, but as a "U".

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#15

Post by gruez » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

tetrazine wrote: post #13

There’s probably nothing to this, but when I try to screenshot the pdf ( https://ia802805.us.archive.org/7/items/comp3321/comp3321.pd... ) on iOS Safari, my phone locks up for a moment with a black screen and spinner and then I have to unlock the phone. Doesn’t happen on other PDFs on archive.org or after I’ve saved it to iBooks. Can anyone replicate? Is this perhaps the result of some byzantine configuration state i…

>my phone locks up for a moment with a black screen and spinner and then I have to unlock the phone

AFAIK that happens when springboard crashes. Maybe there's a 0day exploit in there?

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#16

Post by compuguy » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:02 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #11

cmroanirgo wrote: post #7

I adore governments' classification system which can state things are classified as 'unclassified', and by extension to hijack the meaning of 'classified' to mean 'top secret'. On a topic relevant note, from the original twitter feed [0] which announced/released this (as part of FOIA) a helpful person also mentioned a lightweight download of the ?same document[1] (18MB vs 118MB). [0] https://twitter.com/chris_swenson…

Top Secret is only one of several levels of classification. You really need to mark things as unclassified in the government because other people need to be able to answer basic questions like: - what computer am I allowed to view/edit/save/transmit this on? - can I talk to my coworkers about this, and if so, which ones? - what do I do with printed copies of this document? Answering these questions wrong can land you…

Don't forget U//FOUO.

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#17

Post by az656 » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

Daviey wrote: post #14

scarejunba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's apparent to the guy you're responding to. He's pointing out that the so-called "unclassified" is actually the class "non-secret". A truly "unclassified" object would not have gone through the process of classification. It would not have a class. Of course in English this is fairly common. The object of price zero is said to have no price. Yet clearly it has a price, it is just zero. I have to say that's an amu…

The United Kingdom's previous system for marking school exams (GCSE) had a marking scheme from "A*/A" to "F", and then "U". Where "U" was Ungraded. Clearly it was graded, but as a "U".

What are they using now? I went through the system not that long ago when it was still A* to U.

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#18

Post by compuguy » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:05 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #12

ARandomerDude wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top Secret is only one of several levels of classification. You really need to mark things as unclassified in the government because other people need to be able to answer basic questions like: - what computer am I allowed to view/edit/save/transmit this on? - can I talk to my coworkers about this, and if so, which ones? - what do I do with printed copies of this document? Answering these questions wrong can land you…

That's apparent to the guy you're responding to. He's pointing out that the so-called "unclassified" is actually the class "non-secret". A truly "unclassified" object would not have gone through the process of classification. It would not have a class. Of course in English this is fairly common. The object of price zero is said to have no price. Yet clearly it has a price, it is just zero. I have to say that's an amu…

True, but there are documents that have information that is at multiple levels of sensitivity and/or classification. When you work with such information, having such granularity of classification is a good thing (no matter how awkward it looks).

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#19

Post by Daviey » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

az656 wrote: post #17

Daviey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United Kingdom's previous system for marking school exams (GCSE) had a marking scheme from "A*/A" to "F", and then "U". Where "U" was Ungraded. Clearly it was graded, but as a "U".

What are they using now? I went through the system not that long ago when it was still A* to U.

1-9, https://qualifications.pearson.com/en/qualifications/edexcel...

Re: A document that the NSA uses for teaching Python

#20

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

compuguy wrote: post #18

scarejunba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's apparent to the guy you're responding to. He's pointing out that the so-called "unclassified" is actually the class "non-secret". A truly "unclassified" object would not have gone through the process of classification. It would not have a class. Of course in English this is fairly common. The object of price zero is said to have no price. Yet clearly it has a price, it is just zero. I have to say that's an amu…

True, but there are documents that have information that is at multiple levels of sensitivity and/or classification. When you work with such information, having such granularity of classification is a good thing (no matter how awkward it looks).

[deleted]