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Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

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Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#11

Today came the news that people who testified against the President are being fired: including Alexander Vindman and Gordon Sondland. This is an out-of-control administration. They may well use cellphone location data to track movements of political opponents as well. These are scary times.

Were they fired because they testified against the President? Do you have any source?

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this one. My bad."

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they fired because they testified against the President? Do you have any source?

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this…

Thanks to non-separation of head of state and head of government, a protest against unethical behavior by the president can be conveniently claimed to be insubordination when it suits him. Examples: Yovanovitch, Vindman.

Gotta love the rationalization too. “Oh we allowed your data to be sold on the public market so we’ll just get it there”

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this…

Thanks to non-separation of head of state and head of government, a protest against unethical behavior by the president can be conveniently claimed to be insubordination when it suits him. Examples: Yovanovitch, Vindman. Gotta love the rationalization too. “Oh we allowed your data to be sold on the public market so we’ll just get it there”

[deleted]

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they fired because they testified against the President? Do you have any source?

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this…

"willing to participate" in this case means responding to a lawful subpoena and testifying truthfully.

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they fired because they testified against the President? Do you have any source?

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this…

[deleted]

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#16
post #6

1. Why would I care? I actually like having more relevant ads. 2. Why should I care? If they're gonna have a border we should equip them to protect it. 3. Why should I care? I haven't done anything wrong. 4. No seriously, I swear I didn't do anything wrong. I never went to those Union meetings. You can check my track!

Please don't post generic ideological comments to HN. It leads to generic ideological discussion, which leads to repetitive flamewar, which is tedious, which is off topic here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

This comment seemed like generic "doesn't affect me" flamebait at first; after a 2nd reading I'm not sure if that's the right interpretation. The format of 3 repeating dismissive statements followed by a final statement about falling victim to the previously dismissed problem could be interpreted as a variation on Martin Niemöller's famous poem "First they came ..."[1]. In this interpretation, the comment in line #4 about "those Union meetings" might be a clever reference to "Then they came for the trade unionists" in original poem.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...#Text

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#17
post #6

1. Why would I care? I actually like having more relevant ads. 2. Why should I care? If they're gonna have a border we should equip them to protect it. 3. Why should I care? I haven't done anything wrong. 4. No seriously, I swear I didn't do anything wrong. I never went to those Union meetings. You can check my track!

Please don't post generic ideological comments to HN. It leads to generic ideological discussion, which leads to repetitive flamewar, which is tedious, which is off topic here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

I don't think that's an accurate reading of the comment you're responding to. On the contrary, the poster seems to be making a slippery-slope argument about the specific issue the article is about: the bleedover from surveillance capitalism to empowering law enforcement, and the reasons people might support this now but regret it later.

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they were, I don't see the general problem in this instance. If a staff member disagrees with a President so vehemently that they're willing to participate in an impeachment then there's little reason to assume that they're going to simply return to work and do as instructed from then on. Even if they operated entirely in good faith, nobody in politics just says "Well schucks, I guess my gut was wrong on this…

"willing to participate" in this case means responding to a lawful subpoena and testifying truthfully.

And he could have chosen to lawfully refuse, as others have done. Simple.

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#19
After reading the story, I feel the main point is not about immigration enforcement. The main point here is that the government agencies bought anonymized marketing data and used them for law enforcement purpose.

On the one hand I do feel the danger here. On the other hand, it seems there's no legal barrier to prevent government agencies from purchasing data available for regular corporations.

Re: Federal agencies use cellphone location data for immigration enforcement

#20
I think the government has the right to identify someone and know their citizenship status.

There are tragic consequences to unlawful entry. If one of these people were to get sick, who is the next of kin? Do they contact the consulate for their country?

Well - it's offensive to even ask for citizenship. But proper procedure would be to reach out to the consulate in their country for help.

Having the surveillance tools and infrastructure in place is analogous to having fire hydrants. We don't use them all the time, but they're there when it counts. However:

> doesn’t include cellular phone tower data, is not ingested in bulk and doesn’t include the individual user’s identity,”

> People familiar with some of the efforts say it is used to generate investigative leads about possible illegal border crossings and for detecting or tracking migrant groups.

The thing I'm a bit concerned about is people tend to view turning their head from illegal border crossings as if it's a form of charity or humanity. Asylum are supposed to go to the port of entry and declare asylum and begin their process in immigration court.

Here's why I'm skeptical of illegal border crossers being assumed asylum seekers:

If it were me and I were in a dangerous situation in South America/anywhere else seeking asylum in US, I'd be going to the US embassy closest to me and giving them a dossier about myself, my life, my hopes and dreams and fears, my passport, about how I love love love USA, baseball and Tom Cruise (heh), family photos, my DNA sample and fingerprints, my birth certificate. I am there to demonstrate I am waiting in line, I am who I am, and at the very least, you know me. I'd let them know to expect me at X date, at X port, And I'd arrive at port of entry in USA.

It's not known for the unlawful entrant is - a terrorist, spy, drug trafficker, carrying prohibited wildlife / plants / etc. or someone just dodging a custom fee. What other choice does the gov have? What are they supposed to think? How can it be done better?

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