U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’ • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#11

Post by smokeyj » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:12 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #2

While there are more important things in life (like being accused wrongly of child pornography), I wonder how that effects their Google rankings to suddenly have your entire domain ripped out from underneath you and pointing to a duplicate content site. Is there any recourse for this action? Seems that this would trigger unreasonable search and seizure.

Unreasonable search and seizure doesn't exist, take for example the patriot act which was just extended. The constitution and bill of rights is what they teach little kids, no one takes that junk seriously.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#12

Post by patio11 » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:14 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #2

While there are more important things in life (like being accused wrongly of child pornography), I wonder how that effects their Google rankings to suddenly have your entire domain ripped out from underneath you and pointing to a duplicate content site. Is there any recourse for this action? Seems that this would trigger unreasonable search and seizure.

While there are more important things in life (like being accused wrongly of child pornography), I wonder how that effects their Google rankings to suddenly have your entire domain ripped out from underneath you and pointing to a duplicate content site.

My educated guess based on experience working with people affected by dissimilar causes but similar appearance to Google: a massive hit to rankings/traffic within about 48 hours, and recovery to a fraction of normal several weeks later.

I doubt that one can easily convince a judge that loss of Google rankings is a cognizable harm under tort law, but given that an agency of the US government just called you a child pornographer on your own property, if there isn't a sovereign immunity defense you will hardly need to justify what a high ranking on Google is worth to receive damages.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#13

Post by yread » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #10

tibbon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire process well, but wouldn't that be something that you'd presumably file in Federal District court and start there? Once/if it hits the Supreme Court, I don't think the government could really ignore it could they?

As an example, let's look at the warrantless wiretapping that AT&T did on the behest of the NSA[0]. The EFF filed two cases in response that claimed it was a blatant violation of the 4th amendment: Jewel v. NSA[1] & Hepting v. AT&T[2], against the government & AT&T, respectively. Here's the latest news on Jewel v. NSA: > In April, the Obama administration moved to dismiss Jewel, claiming that litigation over the wire…

Sad state of affairs indeed.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#14

Post by joeybaker » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:20 PM UTC

I can think of two questions I'd love to see a journalist track down:

1. What's the legal process for banning a book?

2. If it's not equally as hard (or harder) for the government to take down a website, why?

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#15

Post by jimmyk » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:20 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #2

While there are more important things in life (like being accused wrongly of child pornography), I wonder how that effects their Google rankings to suddenly have your entire domain ripped out from underneath you and pointing to a duplicate content site. Is there any recourse for this action? Seems that this would trigger unreasonable search and seizure.

Yes, there is recourse. IANAL, but as far as my understanding goes, the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances includes the right to sue the government, or at least to file a suit against the government in court.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#16

Post by tomjen3 » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:21 PM UTC

I have said this before I will have to say this again until we can get a good answer:

What the fuck is the government waisting time doing this crap when they have a war on terror to fight? Concentrate on what is necessary for the war effort, dammit.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#17

Post by tibbon » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #10

tibbon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire process well, but wouldn't that be something that you'd presumably file in Federal District court and start there? Once/if it hits the Supreme Court, I don't think the government could really ignore it could they?

As an example, let's look at the warrantless wiretapping that AT&T did on the behest of the NSA[0]. The EFF filed two cases in response that claimed it was a blatant violation of the 4th amendment: Jewel v. NSA[1] & Hepting v. AT&T[2], against the government & AT&T, respectively. Here's the latest news on Jewel v. NSA: > In April, the Obama administration moved to dismiss Jewel, claiming that litigation over the wire…

I see how they could evoke state secrets for wiretapping and such, but there's no secret here except that they screwed up and seized something they shouldn't have. I don't know how this specifically would be as easy to dismiss, but lawyers and the government always can find new tricks I'm sure.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#18

Post by joeybaker » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:23 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #8

It's amazing that these operations and bills are intentionally wrapped in wording that makes them politically untouchable. I can see why lawmakers wouldn't want to investigate this. Who wants to be the congressman/woman that went against Operation Save our children ?

Meh… it's semantics, they'd vote against Operation Save our Children if they were voting for the Internet Bill of Rights Act

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#19

Post by metageek » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:23 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #10

tibbon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire process well, but wouldn't that be something that you'd presumably file in Federal District court and start there? Once/if it hits the Supreme Court, I don't think the government could really ignore it could they?

As an example, let's look at the warrantless wiretapping that AT&T did on the behest of the NSA[0]. The EFF filed two cases in response that claimed it was a blatant violation of the 4th amendment: Jewel v. NSA[1] & Hepting v. AT&T[2], against the government & AT&T, respectively. Here's the latest news on Jewel v. NSA: > In April, the Obama administration moved to dismiss Jewel, claiming that litigation over the wire…

>> In April, the Obama administration moved to dismiss Jewel, claiming that litigation over the wiretapping program would require the government to disclose privileged "state secrets,” and that they were immune from suit.

Hardly surprising, since he voted to immunize them while in the Senate.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#20

Post by tibbon » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 2:23 PM UTC

joeybaker wrote: post #14

I can think of two questions I'd love to see a journalist track down: 1. What's the legal process for banning a book? 2. If it's not equally as hard (or harder) for the government to take down a website, why?

From my understanding, there are no 'banned books' in the US, but rather ones that are blacklisted by library, teaching and bookstore groups making them difficult to come by. I'm personally unaware of any book that the US Government has banned, although I'm always willing to be wrong :)