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Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

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Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#11

Post by pjc50 »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4
mogadsheu wrote: post #2

It’s pretty clear that battery technology and cost efficiency is going to have to advance substantially before it can have a meaningful impact on air transport. Blimps might be a slight exception.

I remember Sid Smith saying that we have enough lithium in known reserves to replace every car on earth one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&t=35m29s

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater"

> Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080

> In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land

> our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metallic lithium can be directly generated during the lithium extraction process

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#12

Post by pjc50 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #8
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or not bother with air taxis, civilisation won't collapse because some rich arsehole can't get across New York in five minutes.

Sure, but on another hand we should encourage the rich asshole to spend his money so it could be useful to the rest of the economy.

If climate casualties become serious, people might start questioning whether allowing people to be rich and be assholes and not contribute to solving the problem is sustainable...

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#13

Post by himinlomax »

Scoundreller wrote: post #10
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but on another hand we should encourage the rich asshole to spend his money so it could be useful to the rest of the economy.

Universal basic income and massive carbon taxes to pay for it! It’s about time we tax actual destruction, not a minimum wage earner’s Netflix subscription.

Best way to do it I've ever seen is the automated transactions tax, whereby you replace most taxes with a small percentage taken on every financial transaction (plus a larger one when converting to/from cash to account for the black economy).

It's progressive because poor people will only pay twice (once on their salary/benefits, once when buying stuff), whereas rich people will pay several times when moving money around.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#14

Post by choeger »

pjc50 wrote: post #11
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Sid Smith saying that we have enough lithium in known reserves to replace every car on earth one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&t=35m29s

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater" > Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080 > In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land > our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metalli…

How much seawater does that process per day?

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#15

Post by choeger »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #7
sliken wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use hydrogen, it's a much denser energy storage medium, and airflight is less cost sensitive than ground transportation.

Or not bother with air taxis, civilisation won't collapse because some rich arsehole can't get across New York in five minutes.

It also won't collapse because some rich arsehole won't be able to post comments on Hackernews from their smartphone.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#16

Post by jnsaff2 »

sliken wrote: post #3
mogadsheu wrote: post #2

It’s pretty clear that battery technology and cost efficiency is going to have to advance substantially before it can have a meaningful impact on air transport. Blimps might be a slight exception.

Or just use hydrogen, it's a much denser energy storage medium, and airflight is less cost sensitive than ground transportation.

Hydrogen is denser by weight, but by volume the story is completely different. The tanks need to be large.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#17

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

pjc50 wrote: post #11
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Sid Smith saying that we have enough lithium in known reserves to replace every car on earth one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&t=35m29s

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater" > Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080 > In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land > our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metalli…

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype!

THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#18

Post by Scoundreller »

himinlomax wrote: post #13
Scoundreller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal basic income and massive carbon taxes to pay for it! It’s about time we tax actual destruction, not a minimum wage earner’s Netflix subscription.

Best way to do it I've ever seen is the automated transactions tax, whereby you replace most taxes with a small percentage taken on every financial transaction (plus a larger one when converting to/from cash to account for the black economy). It's progressive because poor people will only pay twice (once on their salary/benefits, once when buying stuff), whereas rich people will pay several times when moving money ar…

Why tax the income side when you could just tax the consumption side?

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#19

Post by wffurr »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #16
sliken wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use hydrogen, it's a much denser energy storage medium, and airflight is less cost sensitive than ground transportation.

Hydrogen is denser by weight, but by volume the story is completely different. The tanks need to be large.

What if most of the aircraft was hydrogen tank or bag? Then it could use the hydrogen for some of its lift! We can call it an "airship".

Or compress the hydrogen, but then you have 700 PSI handling issues and the tanks have to be very strong.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#20

Post by marcosdumay »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #17
pjc50 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater" > Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080 > In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land > our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metalli…

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype! THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

It's the substance that composes those 75% of the surface of our planet that we call "sea".
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