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U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

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Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#11

Post by jorblumesea »

The situation is much more complicated. Many go to school in the US, work here to pay off their debts for a decade, then move to Canada for citizenship. Arguably, the US still takes "our cut" of the global workforce.

It also depends on where the immigrants come from. Chinese and Indians have the longest wait list, and therefore its natural for them to look for better options. They are right to do so, imo.

There's also the weather and cost, the large cities in Canada can be insanely expensive, with terrible weather, and salaries aren't anywhere near US levels. If your rent is 2-3k and you're making 100k CAD a year, it doesn't feel like you're living the dream. Want to buy a home in Vancouver or Toronto? No big deal, just fork over 1-2 million CAD for a 1 hour one way commute.

The quality of immigrants is a factor too. The US still sweeps up the best and brightest of academia and business.

I know more than a few Canadians (from immigrant backgrounds) that moved to SV recently purely for the weather and salary reasons. I wonder if when they get their citizenship, many of those in the article will be back in the US or moving there.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#12

Post by frequentnapper »

Canada gets immigrants from developing countries; immigrants take advantage of the excellent education and healthcare system, after a few years get a citizenship, a TN visa, then move to US for a better salary and a lower rent. USA gets the cream of the crop from Canada and wins. Canada loses.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#13

Post by vtange »

mcpherrinm wrote: post #9

I'm moving from San Francisco to Toronto soon. Staying at the same job, my salary will go from $180k usd to $128k usd ($170k cad). (Equity comp remains the same) That's a pretty big cut, though at least for me it's worth it because of non-monetary reasons, like being closer to family, not dealing with immigration anymore, healthcare/education. The money stuff isn't so bad. A downtown Toronto condo is a lot cheaper th…

Would you have made the switch if it wasn't closer to family?

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#14

Post by smnrchrds »

bobbytran wrote: post #6

Toronto salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. With the high cost of living, I dont know how anyone can live there.

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles.

You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced close to doctor salaries. Let's not pretend Canada is the outlier—US is.

I am not saying US is wrong and the rest of the world is right or vice versa in figuring out the correct price for tech work. I am just saying that there are two schools of thought, one the US, the other the rest of the world, and I am sure both have good reasons for their approach.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#15

Post by yawaramin »

bencunningham wrote: post #4

Let's not pretend that Canadian cities are a utopia for tech workers. Vancouver and Toronto are insanely expensive and salaries just don't compare to those a hundred kilometres to the south. Hopefully it steadily improves but I'm not hopeful with these tech companies having virtually an unlimited supply and no incentive to boost salaries.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets.

Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#16

Post by aianus »

bobbytran wrote: post #6

Toronto salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. With the high cost of living, I dont know how anyone can live there.

To be fair you can rent a studio in a luxury condo (with doorman, pool, gym, curtain glass walls, etc.) for the price of a bunk bed in SF, around USD1600/mo. I know, I've done both.

Real estate is expensive to buy and salaries are low, though, that's for sure.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#17

Post by mcpherrinm »

vtange wrote: post #13
mcpherrinm wrote: post #9

I'm moving from San Francisco to Toronto soon. Staying at the same job, my salary will go from $180k usd to $128k usd ($170k cad). (Equity comp remains the same) That's a pretty big cut, though at least for me it's worth it because of non-monetary reasons, like being closer to family, not dealing with immigration anymore, healthcare/education. The money stuff isn't so bad. A downtown Toronto condo is a lot cheaper th…

Would you have made the switch if it wasn't closer to family?

I'd probably be in Vancouver or Montreal otherwise.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#18

Post by ummwhat »

yawaramin wrote: post #15
bencunningham wrote: post #4

Let's not pretend that Canadian cities are a utopia for tech workers. Vancouver and Toronto are insanely expensive and salaries just don't compare to those a hundred kilometres to the south. Hopefully it steadily improves but I'm not hopeful with these tech companies having virtually an unlimited supply and no incentive to boost salaries.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets. Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

High powered weaponry in the street? Someone has given you a very unrealistic conception of California.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#19

Post by Apocryphon »

bencunningham wrote: post #4

Let's not pretend that Canadian cities are a utopia for tech workers. Vancouver and Toronto are insanely expensive and salaries just don't compare to those a hundred kilometres to the south. Hopefully it steadily improves but I'm not hopeful with these tech companies having virtually an unlimited supply and no incentive to boost salaries.

Language barrier aside, Montréal seems like a hidden gem.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#20

Post by refurb »

yawaramin wrote: post #15
bencunningham wrote: post #4

Let's not pretend that Canadian cities are a utopia for tech workers. Vancouver and Toronto are insanely expensive and salaries just don't compare to those a hundred kilometres to the south. Hopefully it steadily improves but I'm not hopeful with these tech companies having virtually an unlimited supply and no incentive to boost salaries.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets. Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

Toronto house prices are about 3/4 of SF, but salaries are about 1/3 to 1/2.

Far harder to own a home in Toronto on a tech salary.

And if you get a tech job in SF, you’ve got great health insurance, so not a major obstacle.

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