At the beginning of this article I was reminded of Paul Graham's "Hackers and Painters."
If women tend to have broader interests, leaning towards the arts, than I would say that those that also lean towards coding would have the largest potential as innovative hackers. Although that's not the same issue as fitting in with a cs crowd... just my thoughts.
I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
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Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#12This is just opposite of what I am thinking. I am doing too much of EE. I think about some application or the other in my spare time, draw mechanisms for robotics while I am doodling and while in class I follow my own curriculum as the one taught at my university it too slow. I am actually looking for a hobby which would take me away from the abstractions of EE and put me to a much concrete ground. Just cannot find any. Suggestions?
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#13This has nothing to do with women in tech. It has to do with specialization vs. generalist. The image of the ultimate hacker assumes a specialist. 100% focused on their expertise. It could lead to a great coder. but a company will also need someone with a decent technical background who can also relate to the end-user for instance, or align more than one sentence when a customer calls. That would be more a generalist…
I don't think it's a specialist/generalist thing. I think it's a "do you have interests outside of programming" thing. In my experience, the image of the ultimate hacker is someone who eats, breathes, and drinks programming (which used to be me). As I've grown older, I've learned to appreciate the value of learning things outside of programming.
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#14In any competitive field, from computer science to ballet, there are those who practice for hours and hours per day.
The author does not want to be a competitive computer scientist, and is happy being a casual one -- skilled enough to make a 40 hour-per-week living with it, to be sure, but not obsessed enough to advance the field itself. She made a great choice going to a liberal arts school.
When she compares herself to students at engineering schools, or references a study of students at CMU, home to some of the top computer science students in the world, she is doing herself a terrible disservice. She sounds a bit like a casual runner upset by the fact that Usain Bolt exists.
Elite computer scientists, like elite athletes, live in a different world. If you want to join that world, the rules are pretty gender-neutral -- work 80 hour weeks, write great software, publish papers, dream in code (or math, really). If you don't want to do that, you aren't a lesser person. Just don't compare yourself to those who do make that choice.
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#15If the author of this blog post reads this then if I may, I have a few comments, and everyone else should take note as-well ;)
"When they talk about how they live to program and never leave the lab"
THEY ARE BORING.
I LOVE programming, however I also LOVE playing with my 2-year old, playing poker with the fella's, practicing origami, watching movies, working on my (admittedly horrible) art skills.
I know exactly where you are coming from when you say that you are worried about your programming skills not being 'up to snuff' but trust me, it is a small price to pay for having a life that is fun and enjoyable. It's these people skills and life skills that will make you more-rounded, and I'll be frank when I say that the more-rounded you are, the more likely you are to have fun, and the more you have fun the more it will show. And the more it shows you enjoy life, the more people/bosses/hiring managers will want to hire you to work around them.
It isn't always the technical skills, most of the time it's the soft skills that make a difference. So practice your knitting, and definitely practice the Japanese. And next time you are asked about what you have as a hobby, be honest. It will impress.
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#16computer science != programming
Why does this very basic fact elude so many?
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#17computer science != programming Why does this very basic fact elude so many?
Because so often, computer science education boils down to "code this, now here's your degree" without requiring any of the mathier stuff.
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#18It seems to me that most people on HN are programers with rather broad interest.. So I don't think the programer who only lives to code is the majority, although it might seem this way during graduate school
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#19This betrays a bit of a self-confidence issue on the part of the author, as does http://blog.carolynworks.com/?p=537 (more revealingly). It also plays like a specific issue trying to be painted into a gender issue, which it really isn't. > “Who knows what lexical analysis is? No one? What, don’t you guys do this constantly in your spare time? All right, I’ll show you …” If I may, I believe that the professor was conn…
> It also plays like a specific issue trying to be painted into a gender issue, which it really isn't.
That's why I came here to comment. Is the author trying to say that all men want to live in the cs lab, and all women don't? That's the kind of sexism that is the problem. On the other hand, if there are others who eat, breathe and live CS, yes, they will be ahead of you. What do you expect? It's just like anything. You'll never be the best, so be what you want to be.
Re: I know I belong in computer science, but sometimes I wonder.
#20computer science != programming Why does this very basic fact elude so many?
Computer science is about programming the same way thermodynamics is about engines: It's possible to do it with no reference to the outside world, and no concern for what 'practical' means beyond, maybe, P and NP, but nobody cares about the people who do it like that.