Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

kansascity.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 133 posts

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#11

Post by analog31 »

rblatz wrote: post #3
cprayingmantis wrote: post #2

I wouldn’t be surprised if during the next few years you saw a number of stories like this come out. From my talks with folks there isn’t as much oversight in the organic sector as we’re led to believe. That’s all hearsay so take it with a grain of salt.

Being from Ohio I knew quite a few farmers, or people that grew up on farms. They all laugh at organic and say it’s bullshit. There is typically no way to tell after the fact if something is or isn’t organic. Same with rBGH free dairy products. Farmers have known for years that the label is only as good as the word of farmer, and with economic pressures to cheat, it’s not surprising to find cheaters.

In some states, you're not allowed to label milk as rBGH-free, because all milk is rBGH free. They have to label it as being made from cows that the farmers promise not to feed rBGH to.

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#12

Post by pm90 »

erikig wrote: post #9

"There’s no proof that the meat [from animals fed from fraudulently marked "organic" produce] is any better for you, but some people believe it is and others have philosophical or environmental reasons for preferring it." Makes me wonder - who is the victim of this fraud?

People who hold that belief.

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#13

Post by bilbo0s »

erikig wrote: post #9

"There’s no proof that the meat [from animals fed from fraudulently marked "organic" produce] is any better for you, but some people believe it is and others have philosophical or environmental reasons for preferring it." Makes me wonder - who is the victim of this fraud?

As a farm boy from Wisconsin I'm obviously going to look at it a bit different than the majority of the HN crowd, but I'd say the victims were the farmers who were his competitors.

That said, I completely understand the skepticism. Who's to say that those farmers aren't trying to get their yields up via non organic methods as well? (Of course, if they were, why would they have turned him in? But you never know.)

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#15

Post by Thorrez »

erikig wrote: post #9

"There’s no proof that the meat [from animals fed from fraudulently marked "organic" produce] is any better for you, but some people believe it is and others have philosophical or environmental reasons for preferring it." Makes me wonder - who is the victim of this fraud?

The customers who paid a higher price for something because it was falsely advertised.

Just because there's no proof that organic is healthier doesn't mean it isn't healthier. And people buy organic for reasons other than health, such as the idea that it's better for the environment (e.g. no pesticides seeping into the ground).

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#16

Post by reaperducer »

gniv wrote: post #6
rblatz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from Ohio I knew quite a few farmers, or people that grew up on farms. They all laugh at organic and say it’s bullshit. There is typically no way to tell after the fact if something is or isn’t organic. Same with rBGH free dairy products. Farmers have known for years that the label is only as good as the word of farmer, and with economic pressures to cheat, it’s not surprising to find cheaters.

> There is typically no way to tell after the fact Consumer Reports (and others) did studies that showed non-organic food have lots more pesticide residue than organic food. That of course doesn't mean they are better for you or that they are tastier.

Depends on the food. Broccoli, possibly, because you eat all of it. But nobody eats a banana peel.

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#17

Post by nine_k »

Animats wrote: post #4

From the article: “They can test for GMO (genetically modified organisms) … but corn that’s not GMO, you can’t tell whether it’s been sprayed or not sprayed.” "Technically, you can, but you’re not likely to get a positive result unless the inspector hits it just right and collects a plant sample before the residues wash away." Yes. See this Forbes article. By the time it reaches retail, you can't tell.[1] Non-organic…

I buy organic fruit and vegetables, but not because I care about pesticides too much.

Mainstream vegetables and fruit are optimized for looks and for shelf life (which measures in many months for much of produce). Taste takes the back seat.

Organic produce is expected to have a shorter shelf life, smaller size, and some visual imperfections, because of how it's marketed. It can compete on taste, though. And noticeably tastier it is.

Organic produce does cost a bit more (sometimes quite a bit). But eating untasty vegetables and plastic-feeling fruit is unpleasant, so I just avoid it, missing all the health benefits. Tasty organic produce does not have this problem :)

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#18

Post by DavidVoid »

Animats wrote: post #4

From the article: “They can test for GMO (genetically modified organisms) … but corn that’s not GMO, you can’t tell whether it’s been sprayed or not sprayed.” "Technically, you can, but you’re not likely to get a positive result unless the inspector hits it just right and collects a plant sample before the residues wash away." Yes. See this Forbes article. By the time it reaches retail, you can't tell.[1] Non-organic…

The point of organic food was never for it to be healthier though right? From my understanding, it was pretty much always about reducing the use of synthetic fertilizers and -pesticides in order to increase (or at least not reduce) biodiversity in farmland wildlife.

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#19

Post by yborg »

rblatz wrote: post #3
cprayingmantis wrote: post #2

I wouldn’t be surprised if during the next few years you saw a number of stories like this come out. From my talks with folks there isn’t as much oversight in the organic sector as we’re led to believe. That’s all hearsay so take it with a grain of salt.

Being from Ohio I knew quite a few farmers, or people that grew up on farms. They all laugh at organic and say it’s bullshit. There is typically no way to tell after the fact if something is or isn’t organic. Same with rBGH free dairy products. Farmers have known for years that the label is only as good as the word of farmer, and with economic pressures to cheat, it’s not surprising to find cheaters.

You can get certification from an auditing organization that you are following organic practices, so for farms willing to spend the extra money on that, it's a little better than someone's word. I know someone who works as an auditor in this space for a living, and they are pretty busy.

Re: One of biggest frauds in U.S. farm history

#20

Post by bluntfang »

gniv wrote: post #6
rblatz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from Ohio I knew quite a few farmers, or people that grew up on farms. They all laugh at organic and say it’s bullshit. There is typically no way to tell after the fact if something is or isn’t organic. Same with rBGH free dairy products. Farmers have known for years that the label is only as good as the word of farmer, and with economic pressures to cheat, it’s not surprising to find cheaters.

> There is typically no way to tell after the fact Consumer Reports (and others) did studies that showed non-organic food have lots more pesticide residue than organic food. That of course doesn't mean they are better for you or that they are tastier.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that consuming more pesticides is bad for you.
Post reply on HN